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Walmart; Closing Union Store in Canada?
Topic Started: Feb 14 2005, 12:02 AM (836 Views)
DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
The problem here is that people don't understand the business model. Most jobs in a WalMart, or any other retailer for that matter, are low skill, have unconventional hours, and well suited for part timers like retired folks or housewives who want to supplement their incomes. Jobs that require serious skills are paid very well at WalMart. The other is paid what it is worth.

If you impose the industrial model on the WalMart, with all jobs being relatively high paying full time jobs as this union is trying to do, it becomes uneconomic very quickly.

And you eliminate a whole class of jobs that people with few skills or just simply wanting to pick up some extra money, can take.

Sylvia, here is the link that talks about the financial data:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...wal_mart_canada

I have read a number of stories on this. What comes through loud and clear is that this union has taken an adversarial approach from the beginning. I'll just suggest that all they have succeeded in doing is reaffirming to WalMart that they can't afford to let unions come in and tell them how to run the business.

From what I can tell, Quebec is a poor place to do business anyway. It is very interesting that Bombardier is negotiating with NM to build an aircraft plant here rather than in Quebec. The big attraction to them is that our work force is much more motivated--translated--don't have a bad attitude.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see WalMart just close up shop in Quebec. They don't need the aggravation and apparently Quebec doesn't appreciate the jobs or the low prices that WalMart provides on a whole host of stuff that people use everyday.

Dan
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jackd
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Walmart does not have a choice but to go to arbitration with the Quebec Labor Board, even if they have announced the closure of the store.
If the parties (employees/Walmart) do not agree on who's the arbitrator, the Government will appoint one on Feb 19th.
Walmart is a very strong organization but they are not above the laws of the land.
Employees of second Walmart store in Quebec (St-Hyacinthe) have received union certification from the Quebec Labor Relations Commission a few days ago. Again, Walmart will have no choice but to go with the flow. Employees of two other stores have applied for union recognition and should get their accreditations within the next few days.
UFCW Canada (Union) also has applied to represent workers at twelve other Wal-Mart locations.
Looks like Walmart will have the two choices I mentioned before
either:
1) Adapt
or
2 Run.
Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Dan,

For Walmart to claim in your link they brought their financial statements along with them to the table doesn't mean anything unless the Union actually saw those statements. Walmart did take out full page advertisements in newspapers that promoted only their side of the story. They have the money to do that and used it to their advantage.

***

Is this the story you're talking about regarding Bombardier? I see nowhere that there is a bad attitude in any of the states, provinces, or countries?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Art...ness/TopStories

Quote from the link, "Asked if he feels Bombardier is playing different governments -- including the state of New Mexico, Ontario, Ottawa and Britain -- off each other in order to squeeze out the best deal, Mr. Audet replied: "No. They're negotiating to get the best offer. It's part of the process.""

Bombardier is a multi-national company. They do business world-wide. And they do their business under the existing laws of each City, Province, State or Country where the business being conducted is located.

The Walmart stores under discussion in this thread are operating in Quebec. Like Jack says, they will either adapt or leave, but there are movements in other provinces for collective bargaining. The other store in Quebec, St-Hyacinthe, has received their union certification. They do not presently have a collective bargaining agreement--that is to be negotiated. Surely, this additional store wasn't also operating at a loss? That is stretching my imagination beyond belief?

Sylvia
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DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
Why do you think they're looking around down here, Sylley? The Governor here, when asked why, said that they are looking for a motivated work force. You figure it out. You think the Globe and Mail is going to point out that Quebec workers have lousy attitudes? LOL!

Has WalMart indicated they are closing the the other store? Then what is it that is stretching your imagination? If this is the same union and they take the same adversarial stance, they probably will close the store. And they'll keep closing the stores until the message is gotten loud and clear.

WalMart doesn't need Canada. Trust me on this. They do more business in many of the individual states down here than they do in that entire country.

Again, you simply do not understand the business model and I don't know how to explain it to you. It suffices to say that if one imposes the high cost, unionized industrial model on a low overhead operation like this, it usually no longer makes sense to operate it.

Dan
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jackd
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Dan: Obviously, Walmart's business model can not be applied worldwide, and obviously not in Quebec.
People in Jonquiere are not asking for huge salary increases. They are only looking at working a normal number of hours (35) during a week instead of the current 28 hours a week, displacing some part time employees who work between 10 and 26 hours a week.
Bombardier: You failed to mention they are looking at NM, among other places, to buit their new plant because the NM government are offering Bombardier free land and a waiving of property and business taxes for 8 years on top of other incentives. And you probably don't know that their Union has offered the company (without being asked) to re-open the contract which expired in 2008 as they want to make sure the new plan is built right here in Quebec. Our local government has told Bombardier they will not get any grant for their new plan, the employees are ready to pitch in.
Bombardier, with nearly 45,000 employees in Quebec, (most are unionized) has certainly not grown to be the 3rd largest aircraft manufacturer (after Boeing and Airbus) the largest train/subway manufacturer in the world with a bunch of non-motivated employees with a bad attitude. as you say.
And for Quebec being a poor place to do business, I wonder why we have the largest concentration of hi-tech business in Canada, (I.T. business, bio-medical labs, research centers,) and the highest rate of foreign investment in Canada.
I also wonder why the well respected Canadian Business Magazine has vaunted Quebec, (Feb 15th/2005 edition) and especially the Saguenay area, where those Walmart employees have lost their job, as being the best place for businesses in Canada.LINK
Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
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DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
Jack, I won't go into the rest but you've just proved my point. The employees don't want to work the system offered, they want to turn part time jobs into full time jobs. Now this eliminates the availability of the part time jobs and forces WalMart to change the way they operate.

WalMart has found plenty of places to apply their business model. I think they should have researched the mindset of people in Quebec better, had they done so they sure wouldn't have located there. I sure wouldn't open a business there. Looks like I have a lot of company.

As for Quebec being a great place to do business--

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_ID=1059524

And then there's this:

http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/Vi...harestbiz030408

Quote:
 
Charest says Quebec's economic state is grim.

He says out of all provinces and U.S. states, Quebec's standard of living ranks 52nd. Charest blames that on Parti Québécois policy.


Wow, this is a real paradise for sure. :)

http://www14.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/ei-ae/urate05.htm

Interesting to compare the Quebec figures to Ontario and B.C.

Now this is a province in the heartland of Canada yet unemployment is significantly higher than Canada as a whole and a big bunch higher than Ontario, B.C. and Alberta:

http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/Vi...mon-jobs-050107

Around here we consider 8.9% unemployment a serious recession. :)

Good luck up there, you're going to need it. :)

Dan

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jackd
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Poor Dan:
1)Taking the subject of the color of margarine to support your impression that Quebec is not a good place for businesses is ludicrous. Anything of more value?
2) Your second link: Don't forget that Charest's declaration was right in the middle of the election campaign. Unfortunately, we also have some stupid politicians. :)
Now, this is what is being said about Charest: (not in a french newspaper)
Quote:
 
Charest has not shown he's up for the job. There is no truth to the rumour Monique Jerome-Forget and Philippe Couillard have been caught sneaking into Premier Jean Charest's office to remove all sharp objects from the desk of our own mini-Dubya.

link
Who said it was paradise?
Thank you for your good wishes, we'll do just fine.....with or without Walmart's business plan.
Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
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DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
Hmm, no comment on the lousy unemployment numbers. But what can you say, eh, when you're out of work your're out of work.

I just assumed it was paradise after your glowing report about what a high tech wonderland it was.

Quote:
 
And for Quebec being a poor place to do business, I wonder why we have the largest concentration of hi-tech business in Canada, (I.T. business, bio-medical labs, research centers,) and the highest rate of foreign investment in Canada.

I also wonder why the well respected Canadian Business Magazine has vaunted Quebec, (Feb 15th/2005 edition) and especially the Saguenay area, where those Walmart employees have lost their job, as being the best place for businesses in Canada


Hmm, only 5.2 percent here.

Enjoy the ride. :)

Dan
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
I would say Wally has been very successful but I wouldn't say they are the most powerful argument for a free market, talk to some of their suppliers. I deal with several on a regular basis; while Wally isn’t a monopoly they have some of the power of one because of their market share in some consumer product segments.
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Dan,

You ridicule the people of Quebec because they prefer white margarine???

Then you give a link comparing Liberals to the Parti Québécois. That party is almost extinct--its popularity has declined to an all time low.

I don't know what the reason is for what looks like a high unemployment figure, but numbers such as these are usually indicative of unfavourable conditions. What those conditions are, wasn't indicated.

You perpetuate oppression with discrimination and give no reason for your hostility toward them.

Yet you champion a company that has no regard for their workers. One that would come to their small communities, wipe out the smaller, more local competition, one that would ruin competition through predatory pricing because they buy so cheaply there is no need for a distribution network. The bulk of the profits isn't returned to the community -- rather it is transferred to big business.

They separate commerce from social responsibility. They have no compunction about getting cheaper labour from third world countries who work in abhorrent conditions. They are sweatshops that no longer exist in North America.

No, I do not understand that business model--it is an abomination!

You denigrate the people of Quebec without knowing anything about their culture, their struggle for equality in a nation they co-found who were oppressed by religious leaders and were hampered by corrupt politicians. All they demand is the right to bargain in good faith--that is something Walmart would deny them.

Well okay ... so enjoy your WallyWorld!!! Just keep eating up their propaganda and before you know it, you just might be able to get a part-time job there--no benefits of course -- but you appear to accept that with alacrity or wish it upon others!.

Sylvia
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DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
I didn't ridicule Quebec for anything. I cited a source that poked some fun at what appears to be a seriously over-reaching government. Do you get the distinction?

I didn't compare anything. I simply quoted a Quebec politician pointing out the province is an economic laggard. Why don't you and Jack try posting hard information that refutes his specific statement instead of an ad hominem attack on him? Probably because you can't.

Quote:
 
Yet you champion a company that has no regard for their workers. One that would come to their small communities, wipe out the smaller, more local competition, one that would ruin competition through predatory pricing because they buy so cheaply there is no need for a distribution network. The bulk of the profits isn't returned to the community -- rather it is transferred to big business.

They separate commerce from social responsibility. They have no compunction about getting cheaper labour from third world countries who work in abhorrent conditions. They are sweatshops that no longer exist in North America.


This rant really displays the true socialist. Can't figure out why people aren't willing to create enough jobs in Quebec and then spout a bunch of nonsense right out of the pages of the People's Daily Worker. LOL! How could anyone respond to such nonsense?

I'd like to know that if I wanted a part time job, it would be available. Fortunately I live in a place where unions are not able to try and force everyone into the same mode and end up putting a lot of people out of work. Enjoy your socialist worker's paradise. :)
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
Dan,

I believe it is Sylley not Silly, I am sure it was just a typo.
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Call me a socialist if you like...your prejudices are showing again!!!

Sylvia
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jrf
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Member
My wife worked at a place that is a major employer in that community. My ex-wife's Mom worked there too.

They have a railhead on location. Its a manufacturing facility.

I was told that on occassion the employees would talk about unionizing and all that would get going and the company would just roll in some box cars and say if we go union, we pack up and leave. And that was that.

And they would leave too. The company has no care where it is. It wasn't really a company that cared greatly for the employee either. They had low wages and decent benefits. Workers that toed the line had fair job security. It wasn't like a big family or social affair, but it was work, and better than what many had. No union would really improve on anything. What? Wages and attitude? No.

The product can be produced anywhere. Its a disposable product found in lots of kitchens and picnics and campers and such. Can easily be moved out of country, but they do need good inexpensive transportation. This town is ideal for that. Centralized geographic location with rail and fair access for trucking.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
A WORLD UNRAVELS
Clothes Will Cost Less, but Some Nations Pay
Consumers gain when textile quotas end and jobs move to China and India. Poor countries lose out.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-quot...-home-headlines

Highlights from the link:

"Wal-Mart Stores Inc., for one, says it isn't planning any dramatic moves. But of course Wal-Mart already is the leading U.S. importer of goods from China; it's expected to bring in $18 billion of goods this year. Spokesman William Wertz said the company expect to remain a major player in other countries such as Bangladesh, at least "until we see how things sort out.""

"Wal-Mart, for example, buys as much as one-third of the clothes made in Bangladesh, a major producer of men's dress shirts and khaki pants. In Cambodia, making clothes for Gap Inc. and other leading U.S. and European retailers accounted for one-third of gross national product in 2003.

Big retailers have always been able to leverage their huge orders into lower prices for raw materials, production and shipping. But now that they aren't bound by import quotas, it's far easier to funnel orders to the factories that produce the most, the fastest and the cheapest.

Yves Robert Lamusse, director of Palmar International Ltd., a struggling apparel factory in Mauritius, said it was impossible for a remote island nation to compete now that a "dictatorship of retailers" was pushing prices lower and lower."

"The costs to the countries that are losing clothing and textile contracts have only begun to be counted. Many trade specialists see the post-quota era as every bit as potentially destructive as the unrestrained capitalism of the late 19th and early 20th centuries that spawned sweatshop conditions and price-fixing monopolies."

"It's clear to Rustam Aksam who the losers will be. "No job security, no income security," said the Indonesian labor leader, who figures his country could lose as many as 500,000 jobs."

"The problem: There are no international organizations with the responsibility or power to regulate manufacturing practices or labor conditions, let alone the world's new concentrations of industrial and buying power."

""The world is sort of where it was at the end of the 19th century, when there were robber barons and ruthless competition and consolidation and then the pendulum swung back at the national level and governments stepped in to regulate capital," said Richard Appelbaum, a professor of international studies at UC Santa Barbara. "Businesses are multinational today. What is the framework for regulating businesses globally?""

"There is no shortage of ideas. Some activists have pushed for the establishment of a global living wage that would vary from country to country but would guarantee workers a subsistence salary. Labor advocates also support the establishment of global standards for workplace safety, environmental protections and worker rights."

"In any case, clothing factories are increasingly in the control of Asian conglomerates that operate with fewer restrictions on operations at home and abroad than their U.S. counterparts.

Multilateral agencies have begun stepping in to help. The World Bank is providing technical assistance and aid for the modernization of ports and highways in countries trying to boost exports, and the International Monetary Fund is helping governments that suffer a budgetary shortfall because of a sharp shift in trade patterns."

"The hope is that big name brands will stay put and pay a little extra to support fair labor standards and reduce the possibility of becoming ensnared in a sweatshop scandal. That effort has won the backing of socially conscious U.S. retailers such as Gap.

If that fails, as many experts predict, the outcome for Cambodia and others in the developing world could be bleak.

"There is nothing else for these people," said Robin Rosenberg, a Latin American trade expert at the University of Miami. "You take away the garment industry, and it's going to be a natural disaster like Hurricane Mitch.""

***

Walmart is China's biggest customer. The trade deficit is growing larger. Unrestrained capitalism will be the death of North America. Walmart and other multinational companies need to take a hard look at themselves and adopt a social conscience. America's strength is becoming its weakness and China will take its place. Textiles are but industry, there are many more.

Nothing that is unrestrained will work. There have to be checks and balances. America's forefather's knew it--how very wise they were. I'm not a socialist ... what I am is a member of a free nation that would like to extend the freedom that has been a part of my world, to the generation that comes after me and the generation after that.

Sylvia
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