Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Walmart; Closing Union Store in Canada?
Topic Started: Feb 14 2005, 12:02 AM (837 Views)
Cornelius
Member
I like the smaller family stores better than the big ones. We don’t have Walmart here but there are other ones that give you bargain prices. Living in a very old city (Haarlem has city right dating back more than 800 years) we treasure our city centre and their small shops. The city limits building super stores within the city boundaries, so our city centre is still alive and fun unlike some city’s I know. I know there’s a price to pay, shopping will be more expensive but I found out that the service you can get from those small family shops are priceless. Therefore if I can afford it I give my business to them.
A few years ago I wanted another video camera and went to my local camera shop and talked “camera’s” there. As you know there’s a lot of things to learn about new camera’s now a days so the owner said to me, take the camera home with you, try it out and come back next week and tell me what you think of it, no charge, no ID, just trust.
I bought the camera immediately, knowing it probably would be cheaper at the discount stores.
Unfortunately this family shop is out of business as well now, I bought my latest new digital photo camera half an hour before he closed down for good. I felt miserable that another one had to bite the dust. I do understand the workings of the market, but maybe we should appreciate the service and personal contact from the family shops a bit more and are willing to pay that bit of extra for it. ( within reason ). :(
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sylley2000
Member Avatar
Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
You get what you pay for has never been truer. If the bottom dollar is the only factor, service is usually sacrificed and so too is the quality of the item being purchased.

Sylvia
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DanHouck
Member Avatar
Land of Enchantment NM
I'm trying to establish whether or not you think your views and the views of this decidedly liberal group are reflected by the typical Canadian. We already know they aren't representative of the typical American, who had made WalMart the most successful retailer in history. The Mexicans seem to love theirs as well.

So Sylvia, do you think that Canadians in general reflect the same degree (proportion) of antipathy towards WalMart as you and the participants of this board do? Would they still be in business if the majority of their customers felt as you all do?

If you truly believe you all represent anything even remotely close to the majority view, that would suggest that they are prospering despite something like 80% of "typical" Canadians hating their guts. Now that would be quite a business accomplishment. :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kajtek1
Member Avatar
Kris, CA
With the internet big price shopping is never going to be the same.
Cornelius you approach to small business is right for single items, but as you know in America "bigger is better" With all those big houses, several cars, acreages of gardens we have to buy more.
Our monthly grocery shopping at Costco leaves us about $300 shorter and 200-300 lb heavier. It would take forever to buy that stuff in small, family oriented places.
Back to internet. You can get something much cheaper without sacrificing the quality. The best deal I made so far was for monster, Stihl chains saw. Locally they would charge me about $1600 and it would take few days to order it.
I found a dealer on the net, that sold one to me for $1200 CANADIAN.
Come to about $860 US.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BuddyIAm
Member Avatar
Member
I don’t buy over the net..

But I do shop on the internet..

No official survey. But my guess would be that WalMart may under cut other store prices 1 out of 10 times.. Not the kind of record most would expect...

Most of my purchases are home related or electronic.

Only thing I can think of. That was cheaper at Wally World lately. Was their bed in a bag set for 40 bucks.

The kids shop at Tarche’, (Target). Wally World is not even mentioned for school shopping. Tarchet’ is low priced and carries the fashionable items kids are going for these days..

I found it interesting that Sears beat out Wally World many times in both price and most certainly quality..

Compusa. always beats Wally World. And Sales prices at Best Buy, Circuit City, Office Max and Depot. would under price Comp USA..

I shop the major grocery stores on the net also..


The Wally World Stores do not have fresh meats. And if they would build in California. They could not compete with the meats handled at Albertson stores. They are all leased fresh butcher sections. Ground Sirloin and Boneless/skinless Chicken breasts will go on sale for $1.77/lbs on a regular bases.. Pork chops occasionally at those prices also..

I load up the freezer at those prices. And don’t worry about saving a couple of pennies a can. On pork and beans.. Price of gas is to high to worry about saving 20 bucks a year on canned beans.. :)

WalWorld has changed. It raised it’s prices. Got a bad employee reputation. And was hit hard with the health insurance debacle..

It may ride on it’s past reputation for a while. But once the ship gets a hole in the hull.. Your going down eventually..
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jackd
Member Avatar
Member
Dan: From what I have observed, Walmart is prospering very well in major metropolitan areas but are struggling in smaller communities (At least in Quebec).
I don't think there is a major difference between the acceptance of Walmart in centers like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and U.S. urban centers like Boston or Atlanta as the customer base is basically identical.
Several smaller towns in Quebec have resisted the coming of Walmart and other mega-stores by setting-up new zoning regulations and maximum sq.ft. for any retail operation. In our town, Walmart asked for a building permit last summer and were turned down following a very negative referendum (78% nay) on the proposal.
Walmart will most likely stay and do quite well in large centers in Quebec, but I would not be surprised they were to close several of their stores in smaller communities, especially after what they have done recently.

Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sylley2000
Member Avatar
Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Dan,

I can't speak for all Canadians I can only speak for myself. And I have no idea if my opinions are reflective of what the bulk of Canadians think about this issue.

I can give you my opinion only.

And it is that this company is trying to break the union. Only once in my life did I belong to Union--that was when I was teaching secondary school. I didn't like being a member. Now that I'm back in private industry, I am again beyond the reaches of unionization.

Unions do have their place and I have no problem with people who belong to them--it just isn't for me. So I am inclined to be sympathetic to Walmart in not agreeing to the unionization of their store. At the same time, I don't have much sympathy for them if their goal is simply to break the union. Walmart has a record of some very unsavory practices. My ultimate sympathy would go to the side who furthers societal values -- what is good--what does the least harm.

Unrestrained capitalism doesn't achieve it, but nothing that is unrestrained ever does.

Sylvia
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DanHouck
Member Avatar
Land of Enchantment NM
Jack, thanks for the information, it really helps me understand this situation better. Sylvia, I'll just suggest that maybe there is more going on here than simply"breaking" the union and you might not want to automatically make that assumption as you seem to be doing here.

For example, WalMart claims and the union does not deny they provided the operating data for the store that shows it was not making money. WalMart has also told Quebec they will provide this information on request. That does not sound to me like they are trying to hide anything.

WalMart notes that the union's demands would have forced expanding the store's workforce from 200 to 230 and also stopped them from using part time workers, which is key to their low cost business model. In regards to the latter, at least around here WalMart employs a lot of retired folks who need/want to supplement their income plus get out of the house. Without WalMart, these kinds of jobs wouldn't be available.

As a business person that employs people as well, I can promise you that if someone came into my business, demanded changes which would make it uneconomic, and in general told me how to run my company, I'd tell them to get lost and if that didn't suffice, I'd shut it down or sell it off. I have yet to meet a union person who works one tenth as hard as the average business owner.

I'll also point out that the union record in preserving and expanding jobs isn't very good. Quite the opposite, they seem to have succeeded in driving a lot of companies out of business or overseas. From what I am seeing here, this looks like a classic case of a union demanding something that the business could not support. WalMart is not obligated to subsidize this store just to keep the union happy.

My overall impression is that the union picked the wrong store to organize (marginal to begin with), tried to throw their weight around and got burned. I think they certainly confirmed to WalMart's management why they want to continue to resist unionization.

Dan
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jackd
Member Avatar
Member
Dan:
Quote:
 
WalMart notes that the union's demands would have forced expanding the store's workforce from 200 to 230 and also stopped them from using part time workers,

This is not quite right.
The union demands were related to the number of hours regular employees would work in a week. Presently, 178 or the 190 regular employees work 28 hours a week while partime employes work anywhere from 10 to 26 hours a week.
The union asked for a regular employees to work for a minimum of 35 hours, while reducing the number of part time employees.
Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CalRed
Member Avatar
Member
Way back when Wal-Mart was just beginning to be a big factor in retailing, Sam Walton made the statement several times that if any of his stores unionized, he would close them down. I am sure that is still policy. The result is they don't have any union stores and most likely will not ever.

Wal-Mart is so big now nothing can stop them. Certainly not any union. The unions are dying already.

Wal-Mart was #4 in retail sales just a few years ago. K-Mart was number 1, Tandy Corporation number 2 and Sears number 3. Wal-Mart passed them all a Long time ago and Sears and K-Mart have both seen bankruptcy. Wal-Mart continues to grow and if you owned their stock from the first days you would be rich today. They are by far the largest retail company in the world.

As far as how they treat employees, they treat them just the same as any of their competition and in most cases much better. You can become a store manager for Wal-Mart and depending on the size of the store, your annual salary will be in the middle to upper 6 figures. You can retire as a store manager with Wal-Mart and receive a cool million cash for your retirement, assuming you have participated in their retirement plans.

Their better pay starts at department manager and there is a big jump at Asst. Manager. Every store has several and they today are receiving over $50,000 plus bonuses in an average store. Of course they are required to pay minimum wage for everyone so no one can say they don't pay well. You get what you are worth.

Unions have been trying to organize Wal-Mart stores for years in the U.S. and keep hitting brick walls. They will get nowhere.

Some of you may be aware of Publix Supermarkets, the number 3 grocery chain in America. The unions have been trying to organize them for 20 years. They have never even come close in any votes but they keep trying. The problem is that Publix treats their employees so well they don't want unions.
Something instead of Nothing?

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle.
God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
Alan Sandage

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Walmart's bigger than mom and pops, Walmart's bigger than unions, Walmart, and companies and corporations, are bigger than the US. That's reassuring to me. Gotta love free-market capitalism.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sylley2000
Member Avatar
Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Dan,

Quote:
 
For example, WalMart claims and the union does not deny they provided the operating data for the store that shows it was not making money. WalMart has also told Quebec they will provide this information on request. That does not sound to me like they are trying to hide anything.


Where are you getting your information that Walmart disclosed their financial operating statements? This article 'appears' to refute that? It looks more like they are going to arbitration and financial statements will be produced there?

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/050211/n021173A.html

That link is dated February 11, 2005. Do you have an update?

Sylvia

Cal,
Quote:
 
They will get nowhere


Well ... they are giving it a concerted effort in Quebec!!! .:floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CalRed
Member Avatar
Member
Sylvia

What I mean is that they will just lose the Wal-Mart stores. They won't get them unionized.
Something instead of Nothing?

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle.
God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
Alan Sandage

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sylley2000
Member Avatar
Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
I know that's what you meant, but it's going to arbitration in Quebec whether Walmart likes it or not.

Did you read the link? "In Quebec City, provincial Labour Minister Michel Despres said the collective bargaining process at the Saguenay store will continue despite the threatened closure.

Despres said he will impose an arbitrator if Wal-Mart and the union don't agree on one by Feb. 19. The arbitrator will have the power to impose a contract between Wal-Mart and the union before the store closes."

Sylvia
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
brewster
Member Avatar
Winemaker Extraordinaire
Dan, to add to Sylley's earlier post, I also can really only speak for myself, but I can add some general observations of the people I see around me.

When Wal-Mart originally moved into Canada, we heard some negative stories, but like you, I assumed it was the way of doing business at the cutthroat bottom end of the market. Even as the stories grew, it never really bothered me. I shopped regularly at the local Wal-Mart.

But this incident will make me think twice... I cannot even explain why this is worse, but it is. It's a big multi-national stomping on the little guy.

I have heard much the same thoughts from my neighbours.

I was shopping for groceries today, near the Wal-Mart. Their parking lot was no more than 20% full...
Posted Image My Favourite Campsite
Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »
Add Reply