Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
What Kind Of People Are Teaching Our Children
Topic Started: Jan 31 2005, 11:11 PM (2,983 Views)
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
See, Jim, there's another difference. [deleted] comes back recognizing the problem, says go ahead delete it, and forgets it. Quite the opposite of you who got upset, whined about it elsewhere, and still hold a grudge.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CalRed
Member Avatar
Member
Posted Image

(Scarsdale, NY) -- Rushing to the defense of controversial University of Colorado professor and pseudo-Indian Ward Churchill, pseudo-Indians from as far afield as the Hamptons and Berkeley are joining forces to get the United States federal government to recognize their claims as an official non-existing ethnic group.

Running Polo Pony, Chief of the Pseudo-Sioux Nation of Scarsdale, New York and Greater Westchester County, yesterday told reporters at a pow-wow held outside the Dakota Apartment Building on Manhattan's East Side, that the Pseudo-Sioux are prepared to engage in "virtual scalpings" if the Bush Administration does not grant them the right to build a fake casino on tribal lands in the East 80s.

"My people have suffered much at the hands of the pale faces," said Sleeps With Rock Stars, a member of the Neo-Navajo Tribe of Nantucket. "For years, agents of the Bureau of Pseudo-Indian Affairs have been taxing our trust funds at confiscatory rates and have stolen tribal lands in the ski districts of Colorado and Utah in order to build Air Force bases. We've put on our Clinique and Prescriptives warpaint and we won't back down until we get what is rightfully ours."

In related news, Prada, Versace and Gucci have announced a joint venture called Le Bucqueskin, a line of ultrahip pseudo-Indian fashionwear with prices starting at less than 1000 pieces of wampum.
Something instead of Nothing?

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle.
God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
Alan Sandage

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jim Miller
Member Avatar
Member
I'm impressed.

"Why are you trying to distract the discussion?"

Seems to me you are just as guilty as I am when you respond with posts that don't add to the discussion at hand.
Jim

Pennsylvania in the Summer
Florida in the Winter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bikemanb
Member Avatar
Liberal Conservative
Back to the subject at hand;

abrad,

Your statements do lend themselves to the appearance of anti-intellectualism, whether you intended it that way or not.

Learning for the sake of learning has value, I have a college degree in chemistry that I used for six months before becoming a process control engineer and have spent my life developing, applying and selling industrial automation. But the grounding in the humanities, such has history, government, art, music and geography has allowed me to have a better understand and enjoyment of the world around me, not just how to make a living. College other than getting me membership in a club, so to speak, had little to do with my living.

I would probably enjoy taking a course this guy taught just to mentally joust with him over some of his ideas, it would force me to think and develop cogent arguments against some of what he believes.

Why in this country that prides itself on freedom of thought and speech we try to gag this guy and get him fired is beyond me, that is what separates us from the totalitarian societies of this world, we allowed a Communist Party to exist here did Russia allow a Democracy Party to exist there, and in the end who won?
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Jim Miller
Feb 10 2005, 07:14 PM
I'm impressed.

"Why are you trying to distract the discussion?"

Seems to me you are just as guilty as I am when you respond with posts that don't add to the discussion at hand.

Excuse me, Jim, I happen to be one of the admins here and it is my responsibility to deal with problems. But I am impressed that you recognize what you call guilt for your behavior. I suggest the next step for you is to decide whether you want to participate in a positive manner or continue to mock the forum, me and other members in a manner that borders on flaming and baiting. If you dislike a forum that tries to maintain a level of civility in its discussions so much, why bother?


The rest of you please ignore this person whose only purpose seems to be disturbing others and my having to deal with it.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Alan (abrad) has also PMed his agreement to go ahead and delete his part in the earlier exchange. So I will do that, but also add I respect and, yes, even favor, people, here and in another thread, big enough to see their part in such an exchange and let it go, so they can get back to why they are here. Thanks.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
abradf2519
Member
bikemanb
Feb 10 2005, 07:43 PM
Back to the subject at hand;

abrad,

Your statements do lend themselves to the appearance of anti-intellectualism, whether you intended it that way or not.

Learning for the sake of learning has value, I have a college degree in chemistry that I used for six months before becoming a process control engineer and have spent my life developing, applying and selling industrial automation. But the grounding in the humanities, such has history, government, art, music and geography has allowed me to have a better understand and enjoyment of the world around me, not just how to make a living. College other than getting me membership in a club, so to speak, had little to do with my living.

I would probably enjoy taking a course this guy taught just to mentally joust with him over some of his ideas, it would force me to think and develop cogent arguments against some of what he believes.

Why in this country that prides itself on freedom of thought and speech we try to gag this guy and get him fired is beyond me, that is what separates us from the totalitarian societies of this world, we allowed a Communist Party to exist here did Russia allow a Democracy Party to exist there, and in the end who won?

I am not an "anti-intellectual". I have nothing against learning art, humanities, sociology, music, PE, theater, or even ethnic studies. If someone wants to pay to learn those things at great expence and then more power to them.

My contention is that most people go to college to get a good job when they get out. Most people do not go to college to "improve their mind".

In my opinion, if one goes to college for one of the subjects I mentioned above, you are probably wasting your money. While some people do make good money doing a job related to the above subjects, most don't.

Tenure was designed to allow professors to explore things like evolution without fear that they will lose their job because religous people might object. I don't think that it was for crackpots like Ward Churchill to air their silly opinions.

I really bothers me a lot that people are paying good money for this guy to vent his BS in the class room. I'll bet most parents don't even realize that they are paying for this garbage.

I think that the thing that bothers me the most, is that this guy actually has a following inspite of the fact that he uses blatently wrong analogies, used bogus facts, and twists the truth to make his argument stronger. Don't people realize this guy is a fraud?
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Putting up with a few extremists and frauds as exceptions to the rule in any endeavor is the price you pay for freedom and liberty.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
abradf2519
Member
Chis:
Should we be paying for this? Isn't this a rip off? Shouldn't we expect to hear intelegent things at college? Why don't people see him for what he really is?
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
I see him as wrong according to my world view, wrong according to a world view that embraces a free-market economy and liberal democracy.

Like I said earlier he is not lacking in intelligence, look what he accomplished with a few words, as explained in the op-ed you posted. He is intelligent enough to formulate arguments reasonable even logical within the confines of his world view, narrow and limited in that whatever drives him it is not curiousity, skepticism, or an open mind. I believe it is by being confronted with and by confronting such one-sded narrow-mindedness that you expand your view and appreciation for all it encompasses. There is much to be gained. And much to be lost in narrowly limiting opposing views from our universities. Again, our own freedoms.

And the cost? One salary at that University? Pittance. Again, small price to pay.

What of the cost spending so much time trying to tear the flag of his opinions instead of raising the flag of our beliefs?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CalRed
Member Avatar
Member
I was trying to be nice and not refer to anyone particular. The ones who have been doing it know who they are.

Could anyone tell me if it would be alright for Churchill to begin his next public speech on campus with a prayer? With the death threats and all he may believe he needs one.
Something instead of Nothing?

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle.
God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
Alan Sandage

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CalRed
Member Avatar
Member
Just a paragraph from:

“Crimes Against Humanity.” by Ward Churchill

“isn't it time we spread such "inoffensiveness" and "good cheer" around among all the groups so that everybody can participate equally in fostering the national round of laughs they call for?. First, as a counterpart to the Redskins, we need an NFL team called "Niggers" to honor Afro-Americans. Half-time festivities for fans might include a simulated stewing of the opposing coach in a large pot while players and cheerleaders dance around it, garbed in leopard skins and wearing fake bones in their noses…"Hispanics?" They can be "represented" by the Galveston "Greasers" and the San Diego "Spics," at least until the “Wisconsin "Wetbacks" and Baltimore "Beaners" get off the ground. Asian Americans? How about the "slopes," "Dinks," "Gooks," and "Zipperheads?"…Let's see. Who's been left out Teams like the Kansas City "Kikes," Hanover "Honkies," San Leandro "Shylock," Daytona "Dagos," and Pittsburg "Polacks" will fill a certain social void among white folk. Issues of gender and sexual preference can be addressed through creation of teams like the St. Louis "Sluts," Boston "Bimbos," Detroit "Dykes," and the Fresno "Fags…"

Mr Churchill, being a faux Native American, has created a gap in what shred of credibility he ever had. Churchill claims membership in the Cherokee tribe, although there are no records of this claim. Sounds like another old hippie hiding behind the PC shield of a historically pitied group.......and a claim of academic freedom.


You can read the entire essay here:

Source
He sure has a way with word doesn't he. But then that's what we expect from a college professor isn't it?
Something instead of Nothing?

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle.
God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
Alan Sandage

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tomdrobin
Member
Educators spend their entire careers in a "like minded" environment. No wonder they toe the liberal line. Many consider activism as a badge of honor, even if the activism is pretty irrational.

I live pretty close to a University town. While driving thru the other day, I spotted a demonstrator. A young lady was standing next to what appeared to be a cardboard replica of a dolphin. She was holding a sign out to traffic, that said, "Fish are Our Friends, not Food". I wondered who put this naive young woman up to this, and figured probably some college prof. I felt like stopping and telling her to give the message to the fish, as most will eat any fish small enough to fit in the big fish's mouth.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Cal " I was trying to be nice and not refer to anyone particular. The ones who have been doing it know who they are."

You've got innuendo honed to skill. No one here has defended him. When will you defend freedom of speech and academic freedom? We know what you stand against, Cal, tell us, what do you stand for?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Cal, re post Feb 10 2005, 11:24 PM, I take it you disaprove of that language. So apparently you agree with Churchill on something, since that is his message in this essay.


Since two other threads were more of the same starting to flood this forum, I will merge them with your ealier thread.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »
Add Reply