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Youth & Math
Topic Started: Jan 11 2005, 05:56 PM (262 Views)
DylansMom
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Jackie-Sioux Falls, SD (in Arizona for the moment)
I just don't get how kids can get passed on to the next grade these days and can't even add or subtract, never mind how to count money!!!

Greg went to Staples the other day and spend $7.37. Gave the cashier (who had someone there training her) a $20.00. Well the cashier forgot to enter in receipt of $20.00 and just completed the transaction. She had NO idea HOW to figure out the change. She asked the person training her (who had been on the phone) to help her, and even that person couldn't figure it out! They gave Greg back $17.37 !!!!! I can only imagine how short that register was by the end of the day!!!!

Should he have given the extra back, maybe, but maybe the management will figure out that they need to hire people who can count.

It is very sad. :faint: :faint:

When I was training new employees at a restaurant I worked at, I would spend at least an hour on the cash register, just teaching them how to make change. What on earth do the math teachers do these days??? :(
Greg, Dylan & Jasper too!
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mychrissy
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Chrissy
You're right Jackie. Too many calculators and not enough training, besides it's easier for the cash registers to do it. :) (Am I dating myself using the words cash registers?)
Chrissy

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Little Kopit
newfoundland
It's called a social pass so they don't have big kids in grade two with little kids.

My question: what good does it do?

New math absolutely spoiled everything.

:)
Lynne
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DylansMom
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Jackie-Sioux Falls, SD (in Arizona for the moment)
But don't parents work with their kids either??? I remember having a toy cash register and play money, and playing store with my parents and learning how to count back money.

Shouldn't parents be held accountable as well?????? It's bad enough that the school system allows this, but parents really should be a bit more involved. At least in my eyes. :dunno:
Greg, Dylan & Jasper too!
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
Some parents are no better at math than their kids. I usually try to give the extra money back twice and then keep it. If they short me, it takes much longer... :)
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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DylansMom
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Jackie-Sioux Falls, SD (in Arizona for the moment)
I remember one job I had during school at Dairy Queen. If we needed more coins or, say ones for the register, we would of course "buy" it. But they would purposely either short what they gave us, or have extra in there, and heaven help us if we didn't catch it! LOL

Ah, the good old days! :faint:
Greg, Dylan & Jasper too!
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Math teachers? Blame the parents. Started teaching my son algebra in first grade, concept here, problem there, until he got. As a senior he is taking a 2nd year college Calculus course.

Now if he'd only apply himself and it to something besides skateboards!
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Kate and Ed
Raleigh NC

Don't get me started!

If a parent ever wants their youth to move out of the house they had better make sure they can count (and speak so most of the population can understand them).

Kate

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"Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country."

Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the US
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Kate and Ed
Raleigh NC
cmoehle
Jan 11 2005, 09:36 PM

Now if he'd only apply himself and it to something besides skateboards!


Ha! Teacher told us she thought one of our boys would do much better in Geometry than he had in Algebra because he was so interested in skateboarding (ramps, jumps, rails, heights, dimensions). Actually he did.

:dunno: Kate
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"Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country."

Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the US
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Justine
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The concept of counting back change is not taught. Where I work I am the ONLY one who does it. This is not because I am so smart, it is because I am so old( relative to other employees) they know how to punch in the change required into the cash register. I do not I just have always counted back( as taught many years ago) and have not learned the new way of doing things. Plus I was taught to count back so people don't feel they are being shortchanged.

I personally feel more time in school needs to be spent of " business math", or" consumer math" and less on algebra, I think algebra should be a seperate course vein. Kids that are going on to university or college need algebra and " new math" the rest of us just need a good grounding in the essentials.
Many kids get out of high school with no concept of money mangement, interest rates, morgages, etc. The real math that is used everyday.
I realize if your child is going into certain fields he will need the full spectrum of math skills, but it seems like the basic math is just rushed through, and kids graduate high school with really just a bit of everything and not enough of anything!!
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sebo
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BXL, Belgium - Urup
Quote:
 

I personally feel more time in school needs to be spent of " business math", or" consumer math" and less on algebra, I think algebra should be a seperate course vein. Kids that are going on to university or college need algebra and " new math" the rest of us just need a good grounding in the essentials.


What do you mean by new math?
I think any person is capable of going through at least a couple years of calculus by the end of high school. It's not about the math, they can forgot it a couple years later, but by going through it once they will have learned to think in a different way then in social sciences. When they then go back to basic geometry, arithmetic and the other day to day uses of math, it will be instinctive.

In the high school I went to you could graduate without having been through neither the basics of calc nor trig! And even there the kids were complaining that it was tough compared to the States. It shouldn't be that way IMO.

There's no 'theory' in the simple algebra and calc done in high school. It's very "visual" and the courses are not self-proven. High school math basically offers techniques to solve problems without any of the rigourous and tedious formal nomencalture used in standard college maths. Pretty much everything that is taught is taken 'for granted' for I don't recall having to prove that many theorems apart from the IB math courses that were offered as an option. I believe this is purposely done to offer these methods to everybody.

University math (here, I don't know about the US but I assume it's the same) differs in that you are brought back to the very first axioms, and you then work your way through everything you have learned from a very theoretical perspective. Nothing is taken for granted, and you have to sweat through dozens of rigorous demonstrations to come to a conclusion that is simply "given" in high school. Going through it makes AP calc seem unfounded and incomplete from a mathematician's perspective, but very handy for anyone not interested in the "whys"

Back to the cashier... I have no idea how that is possible. It doesn't take ANY education to count.

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sebo
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BXL, Belgium - Urup
Quote:
 
Math teachers? Blame the parents. Started teaching my son algebra in first grade, concept here, problem there, until he got. As a senior he is taking a 2nd year college Calculus course.

Now if he'd only apply himself and it to something besides skateboards!


Chris, I definately agree. In my school parents even had the power to write petitions on how the school should be run. The "oil families" like we used to call them managed to get the middle school principle to remove all end of year exams. No exams! That's insane

You've got kids in other parts of the world going through 3 two-week exam sessions per year starting in elementary school!! Parents should be the ones seeking a more rigorous programs, not just the teachers
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"Thinking must never submit itself, neither to a dogma, nor to a party, nor to a passion, nor to an interest, nor to a preconceived idea, nor to whatever it may be, if not to facts themselves, because, for it, to submit would be to cease to be." -Henri Poincaré-
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Justine
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Sebo, I have no idea what the heck half of your post said! :P

I have only junior high math( to grade 10) and in high school we were able to choose between a math or science( I chose biology) to get our grade 12. It is different now, math is required to grade 12 now, and it cannot be the " modified or business math" . This means that some kids will not " graduate" but will recieve a certificate of grade 12 as opposed to a " diploma". This is a problem for some kids, my son in particular, will not get his math 12, he is already in modified math as he has learning difficulties. He is VERY bright in other areas, he recieved two A's and a B in his other subjects, but due to a number dyslexia he struggles with basic math.So although he will obviously not be able to choose a career course with maths in it, he is now limited to which trades he can even train in, as many require a " diploma" not a "certificate".I am not talking about him attending university, just a trade school .So being smart in everything else doesn't even count! There are many jobs that do not involve more then basic math, I think he should be allowed to train for those jobs!

Most of what you discussed in your post went way over my head, but still, I have a job, a nice home , a boat, a vacation every year, and we can pay for everything we need and some things we just want. So obviously having a high level of math skills is not necessary for everyone. BUT,,, I do believe basic math skills are very important for everyone.

When one is skilled in something( as you obviously are,) then they often have a hard time understanding how it is so much more difficult for others.

I realize this post is a bit off topic, but just my two cents worth.

PS High school math is not visual, it is conceptional. If you don't get the concepts you will never get the " visual" aspects.
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Kate and Ed
Raleigh NC
sebo
Jan 12 2005, 12:06 PM

I think any person is capable of going through at least a couple years of calculus by the end of high school.



:nono: :nono: :nono: many, many are not capable for any variety of reasons.

Justine makes good points IMO.

Parents need to look at their individual kids and do what they can to make sure they have basics BEFORE they leave high school.

All kids are not going to college. Most public schools drop the ball with these kids and many private schools are geared to the high achiever.

:blah: Kate

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"Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country."

Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the US
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sebo
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BXL, Belgium - Urup
Kate and Justine,
What I mean by that is most kids are capable of acheiving that level and should, not for the math, but for the learning experience. I've always considered high school a place where you 'learn to learn.' The material in itself isn't half as important as acquiring a good working habit. You can forget the calc after high school, but your mind won't forget how to think. It's not because I love math that I say this, but because it is a unique way of looking at things. To think of a problem in terms of math is a great exercise for those who are capable of it, and I believe that most students are.

If you push yourself a little further, the simple things will seem trivial
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"Thinking must never submit itself, neither to a dogma, nor to a party, nor to a passion, nor to an interest, nor to a preconceived idea, nor to whatever it may be, if not to facts themselves, because, for it, to submit would be to cease to be." -Henri Poincaré-
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