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Arab Winds Blowing Against America
Topic Started: Nov 10 2004, 09:01 PM (108 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
This article, Arab winds blowing against America, discusses Arab reactions to the election outcome. It is pretty well summarized in this cartoon from the Saudi daily Asharq Al Awsat:

Posted Image

Translated it says, subtlely, "With US or against US" and "With us ... Or with us".

I thought the point of being in Iraq was to spread democracy. Or was it our interests?

"Bush's appeal for democracy is diluted by being contingent on serving American interests rather than those of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims. Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's Iraqi government, that of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and that of Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai are all seen as American puppets. Not exactly the choice of the people.

"Is this hurting American interests? Indeed, the money and business alliances in this part of the world say so. This week, China's oil giant Sinopec Group announced with considerable fanfare a historic $70 billion oil and natural gas agreement with Iran, China's biggest energy deal in the oil-rich Persian Gulf region.

"Meanwhile, American oil companies are banned by sanctions from doing business with Tehran. This past summer, Chinese, Russian, Spanish, French and Italian oil companies signed natural gas agreements with Saudi Arabia. No trace of American companies there.

"The winds are shifting against U.S. interests...."

Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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BuddyIAm
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Member

Well, I tried to tell you so. But you wouldn’t listen.

Speak softly and carry a big stick is dead.. Unless you are willing to use the big stick..

The world hears our death rattle...
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
And the cons think Osama favored Kerry. ;)
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Unintended consequences of a neoconservative policy.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Banandangees
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cmoehle
Nov 11 2004, 03:01 AM
Translated it says, subtlely, "With US or against US" and "With us ... Or with us".

"Bush's appeal for democracy is diluted by being contingent on serving American interests rather than those of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims.

Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's Iraqi government, that of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and that of Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai are all seen as American puppets. Not exactly the choice of the people.

"Is this hurting American interests? Indeed, the money and business alliances in this part of the world say so. This week, China's oil giant Sinopec Group announced with considerable fanfare a historic $70 billion oil and natural gas agreement with Iran, China's biggest energy deal in the oil-rich Persian Gulf region.

"Meanwhile, American oil companies are banned by sanctions from doing business with Tehran. This past summer, Chinese, Russian, Spanish, French and Italian oil companies signed natural gas agreements with Saudi Arabia. No trace of American companies there.

"The winds are shifting against U.S. interests...."

Looking out for and serving the Arabs or Muslims is whose major responsibility?

Did Arafat serve the interests of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims - Palestinian? Was he really saving all that money (from the U.S. and others) to eventually put it to good use of and service to the ordinary Arab (Palestinian)?

Did Saddam really serve the interests of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims - Iraqi? Was he and his sons really shaping up Iraq politically to serve all Iraqis no matter their ethnicity or Islamic sect belief?

Are the Shaws of Iran (or whoever rules that country) serving the interests of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims - Iranians. Is their country thriving because of leadership?

Did Taliban of Afghanistan serve the interests of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims - Afghan? Was Afghannistan thriving?

Is the Syrian leadership (inherited) serving the interests of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims - Syrians?

Who is it in this country of ours that feels it is more of a responsibility of an American to look out for and serve the Arab more than the Arab leaders themselves. Is it the bleeding heart neocon or the bleedheart neolib?
--------
And as far as Allawi is concerned - anyone who is held up as an interim "leader" is going to be looked at as a puppet. Sort of like the neolibs in this country not accepting the leadership of President Bush. Those majority of Americans who re-elected Bush as President has been referred to in the British press as "how can 59 million Americans be so dumb?" Therefore Bush must be a puppet and the American people the puppeteers.

"The winds are shifting against U.S. interests."

So what else is new? I suppose the only thing left for us to do is crumble.

Who wants to go first, Neocons or neolibs? :o
Banan
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
banan "Who is it in this country of ours that feels it is more of a responsibility of an American to look out for and serve the Arab more than the Arab leaders themselves. Is it the bleeding heart neocon or the bleedheart neolib?"

Don't even have a clue where that question comes from. Nothing is said at all about looking after the interests of anyone else.

The point of the cartoon and the op-ed is to say, as much as we talk about looking after our interests, what we do does not in reality promote our interests. In short, our rhetoric does not match out record--and to ask, why they would want anything to do with it.

Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Banandangees
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cmoehle
Nov 11 2004, 03:01 AM

"Bush's appeal for democracy is

diluted by being contingent on serving American interests rather than those of the ordinary Arabs or Muslims.

I took this out of context - I suppose for my own purposes - not to point a finger at you, but to point out that while America (and most of Europe) has oil interests which they put before that of the ordinary Arab, it should be the major responsibilityof the Arab leaders to look out for their people first rather than the money they can get for themselves (Saudi Arabia, Iraq), or extort from other countries "for a cause" (Arafat), and the Taliban for power and control.

And the article, Americans should not care what journalists of other countries think about how we should vote. They can have an opinion, but we should feel no need to care what their opinion is of how we exercise our right (to vote).

Opps, the movie just came on. Lets sit back and appreciate the sacrifice these men made.
Banan
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Didn't feel a finger pointed at all.

Your point now is half the point of the op-ed.

Of course there is no need to care about a foreign or even domestic commentator, but rather the point of what is said, which you apparently now agree with. I can understand how some might get upset a foreigner is thumbing their nose at us, but attacking messengers does not attack messages.

The other half of the point is we are not pursuing our economic interests. Why would they follow that? Why do we?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Posted Image My Favourite Campsite
Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Dukakis? :floorrollin:
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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