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Was CA Prop. 71 A Direct Slap In GWB's Face?; 59% of CA voters said yes to stem cell r
Topic Started: Nov 8 2004, 09:38 PM (178 Views)
corky52
Member
59% of California voted to put their money where their mouth is and help finance stem cell research, is this a direct slap at the stated policies of President Bush?
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BuddyIAm
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Bush lost to Kerry by 1 percentage point more. Than he lost to Gore..

On edit:

In California..
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
I don't know that it was a slap in the face, but it should be an indication to him that his so called mandate isn't as broad as he might like to imagine.
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Marriage ammendment is the latest hopeless rally cry of the religious right single issue voters.

I've reported elsewhere the federal government, i.e., the Army, is funding this research overseas in Europe. Bush's rhetoric and record are miles apart.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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irongoat
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I, as all on the "Religious Right", support any scientific endeavor with any promise for the betterment of mankind as long as it doesn't involve taking life.

"In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson
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corky52
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IG,

So how do you feel about California Proposition 71?
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irongoat
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Corkey52, I only have superficial knowledge about Prop. 71 At your suggestion I will look into it. Thanks for the reply.
"In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson
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irongoat
Member
* Prop 71 is an unprecedented taxpayer subsidity for the biotech industry, written by those who stand to profit most.

* Some of the technologies involved - particularly "research cloning" - have the potential for abuse. The research will require a huge supply of eggs which means "harvesting" them from thousands of women. The prospect raises troubling questions regarding the exploitation of women, especially those who are young and poor.

* It allows scientist to weaken national standards for informed consent and research on human subjects. It excuses scientist from current and future state laws. The legislature can't amend it for 3 years - and even then it will take a 70% super-majority plus the Governor.

* Proposition 71 will cost California taxpayers $6 billion, paid over 30 years. Given the states huge deficit, this likely will come from cuts in education, health care, and other program-cuts that will agravate existing disparities.

Here is a list of organizations who opposed Prop 71:

The National Womens Health Network
Our Bodies Ourselves
The California Nurses Association
The California Womens Health Project
The Center for Genetics and Soceity
The Council on Responsible Genetics
and many ethicists, academics. scientist, medical professionals

The Prochoice Alliance admonishes California not to be fooled by Prop 71.
"In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson
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corky52
Member
IG,
All the information you list and more was put out, heavily. The prop. still passed. 59% to 41%, so now, you can answer the original question.
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irongoat
Member
Corkey52, I would have voted against Prop 71. I couldn't so I didn't and it's California and their $6 billion.

If you lived in California, would you have voted for Prop 71 just as a slap at Bush?
"In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson
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corky52
Member
IG,

I do live in California!

It's always a pleasure to do the right thing and make a significant political statement at the same time!

Will you refuse to use the products from this research when the time comes for you or your's? If the choice is between your morality and you or one of your families future, how will you choose?
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irongoat
Member
Corkey52, I have been very clear and don't need to restate my position. To ado over and over is trite and smarmy.
"In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson
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corky52
Member
IG,
You said you would have voted against the research, I asked if you would use the products of this research after it was done? You would chose to vote against something and I was interested in how far people on the otherside of this question will carry what they believe, if it's a question of not dirtying your hands or if it's unto death and suffering? This question isn't like abortion, pure theory for men, it may truly be a matter of personal life and death in the future.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
IronGoat, did you vote against Bush who allows federal funds to be spent overseas for the same research?

You say "support any scientific endeavor with any promise for the betterment of mankind as long as it doesn't involve taking life."

Are you against the war in Iraq? Are you against the death penalty?

Or are those justified because they promise the betterment of mankind?

These things are not clear at all.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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tomdrobin
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cmoehle
Nov 9 2004, 11:44 AM
Bush's rhetoric and record are miles apart.

I think the rhetoric was to garner votes from those polarized to the right on the abortion issue. I can't read his mind. But, I suspect he doesn't have an issue with the stem cell research at all.
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