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| Bush ‘s Election Not A Mandate. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 8 2004, 11:58 AM (250 Views) | |
| cmoehle | Nov 10 2004, 05:50 AM Post #16 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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His record is liberal, irongoat. Hope he doesn't give us four more years of that. 51% is not an authoritative instruction as mandate implies. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| irongoat | Nov 10 2004, 03:24 PM Post #17 |
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cmoehle, I disagree. The voters knew what they were getting and voted him in for four more years, that's a mandade to finish his agenda. |
| "In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson | |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 10 2004, 03:42 PM Post #18 |
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Iron I don’t agree there was a mandate. And unfortunately even if I would agree there indeed was a mandate. You couldn’t find more than a few people who would agree on what the mandate was.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 10 2004, 06:09 PM Post #19 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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IronGoat, I don't disagree. THose who voted for him knew damn well they were voting for a politically liberal but hopefully religiously conservative president. I don't doubt that for one minute. What I disagree with is whether it was a mandate. 51% of the vote is simply not authoritative, as mandate implies. He won, no disputing that, just not authoritatively. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 10 2004, 06:23 PM Post #20 |
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Chris How many Bush supporter knew that Bush was not anti abortion. But rather that he sought to reduce abortions. Now I will admit the Bush is a liberal on this issue. What I question is your suggestion, that Bush supporters realized his position.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 10 2004, 06:48 PM Post #21 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Buddy, there are many conservatives, traditional fiscal conservatives who value limited government taxing, spending, growth, dependency, who saw that Bush's record stands opposed to those values, but who had no alternative choice for Kerry's record stands in perhaps greater opposition. In a state so heavily Republican I had it easy deciding to vote third party, though I doubt I'd've done differently in Ohio. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| irongoat | Nov 10 2004, 07:17 PM Post #22 |
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EVERONE is entitled to an opinion on "the Bush Mandate" and here is a list of media opinion. PRINT MEDIA: The Boston Globe 11/4/04 - mandate The Los Angeles Times 11/4/04 - mandate USA Today 11/4/04 - clear mandate The Washington Post 11/4/04 - mandate BROADCAST MEDIA: Chris Matthews MSNBC 11/3/04 - mandate Wolf Blitzer CNN 11/3/04 - mandate Renee Montague NPR 11/3/04 - mandate Not unexpectedly columist Margaret Carlson disagrees her liberal media comrades as she confuses mandate with wide majority. |
| "In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 10 2004, 07:21 PM Post #23 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The media we are to trust? Words come cheap to sensationalists. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 10 2004, 08:04 PM Post #24 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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IronGoat, this where you got that? Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting's MEDIA ADVISORY: Defining Bush's "Mandate" , to quote in full: Winning 51 percent of the popular vote in Tuesday's election, Bush administration officials were quick to declare that the results constitute a "mandate" for Bush's second term. This interpretation of the election caught hold in the mainstream media-- a sign perhaps that White House spin was triumphing over the actual numbers recorded on Election Day. The Boston Globe (11/4/04) reported that Bush's victory grants him "a clear mandate to advance a conservative agenda over the next four years." The Los Angeles Times (11/4/04) made the somewhat peculiar observation that "Bush can claim a solid mandate of 51 percent of the vote." USA Today (11/4/04) was more definitive, headlining one story "Clear Mandate Will Boost Bush's Authority, Reach," while reporting that Bush "will begin his second term with a clearer and more commanding mandate than he held for the first." The Washington Post (11/4/04) similarly pointed to Bush's "clearer mandate," implying that the election of 2000, in which Bush failed to get even a plurality of the popular vote, was a mandate of sorts, if an unclear one. Broadcast media also took up the "mandate" theme. MSNBC host Chris Matthews announced at the top of his November 3 broadcast, "President Bush wins the majority of the vote and a mandate for his second term." CNN's Wolf Blitzer (11/3/04) offered his assessment that Bush is "going to say he's got a mandate from the American people, and by all accounts he does." NPR's Renee Montague (11/3/04) also relayed the White House's spin, before quickly agreeing with it: "The president's people are calling this a mandate. By any definition I think you could call this a mandate." Of course, there are many definitions by which Bush's narrow victory would not be called a "mandate." Columnist Margaret Carlson, writing in the Los Angeles Times (11/4/04), posed the question bluntly: "What kind of mandate does he think he has with a 51 percent win?" More journalists might want to ask the same question. While White House officials tout the total vote count for Bush as evidence of wide support, the increase in voter turnout and the size of the U.S. population also means that greater than usual numbers of voters opposed the victorious candidate. As Greg Mitchell of Editor & Publisher put it (11/5/04), "It's true that President Bush got more votes than any winning candidate for president in history. He also had more people voting against him than any winning candidate for president in history." And Bush's slim majority is not all that impressive for an incumbent; Ronald Reagan, for example, claimed 51 percent of the vote in 1980, while gaining 59 percent four years later. Lyndon Johnson was the choice of 61 percent of voters in 1964, as was Richard Nixon in 1972. In terms of margin of victory, Al Hunt observed in the Wall Street Journal (11/4/04), Bush's victory was "the narrowest win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916." If a "mandate" is the same as an uncontested victory, then George W. Bush has that-- but so does just about every president, so it's hardly newsworthy. It is understandable that the Bush administration would tout its victory as evidence of a "mandate" for pursuing its second-term agenda. Responsible journalists, however, should refrain from simply amplifying White House spin. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 10 2004, 08:08 PM Post #25 |
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He also had more people voting against him than any winning candidate for president in history." Buddy says: Just remember. You saw it first. Here at the Soapbox..
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| brewster | Nov 11 2004, 11:18 AM Post #26 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Aristotle |
My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| justme | Nov 11 2004, 11:28 AM Post #27 |
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Member
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As a non liberal Democrat, I am glad Bush won and I think the DNC needs to get real about it support for the liberal philosophy. Liberalism in IMHO is obsolete. I voted for Bush because of his rock solid war on terror and he gets an A+ for his investor friendly economic policies. However, he needs to rein in the deficit--which is already showing and improvement because of the economic improvements from his tax cuts--- which need to be made permanent. |
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| cmoehle | Nov 11 2004, 12:17 PM Post #28 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I agree, contemporary liberalism is obsolete. That's why I wish Bush get real about his liberal policies. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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