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| Our Wonderful Saudi Friends!; With friends like these.......... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 7 2004, 05:10 AM (272 Views) | |
| tomdrobin | Nov 7 2004, 08:38 PM Post #16 |
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I've read it was the threat of Saddam unleashing the now supposedly non existant WMD. In hindsight it probably would have been a good idea, the curds and sheits that revolted against Saddam would have appreciated it. |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 7 2004, 08:46 PM Post #17 |
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Tom says the curds and sheits that revolted against Saddam would have appreciated it Buddy says> The Kurds and Shi’as were going to fight for independence. Not a unified Iraq. Bush Sr. could not have allowed that. He knew that would end up being a un-winnable war. Bush Jr. should have listened. The reason we can’t get peace in Iraq now is largely because of this resistance of each group, to giving up power to the other. Out of the mouths of our own troops. ‘We are not killing terrorists. We are killing poor people with guns.’ |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 7 2004, 09:49 PM Post #18 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Schwarzkopf, It Doesn't Take a Hero, p 498, provides three reasons. One, the coalition they had worked so hard to preserve would have fractured, leaving likely only the US and Britain. Two, under Geneva and Hague Conventions we would have been considered occupying powers and responsible for all cost of restoration. Three, it would have turned the Arab world, especially those who had fought side-by-side with us, against us. "For once", he concludes, "we were strategically smart enough to win the war and the peace." Not a word on WMD. I do not recall them ever mentioned at that time other than the rockets possibly laden with chemicals. Remember, as Cheney said, the grave threat was the nexus of WMD and terrorist ties, which as you say were not active on the one hand and not operative on the other. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| TexasShadow | Nov 7 2004, 10:57 PM Post #19 |
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chris so what changed between bush sr and bush jr? (I'm assuming bush jr doesn't open his mouth without talking to his daddy first) |
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| cmoehle | Nov 8 2004, 05:44 AM Post #20 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Neoconservatism. Most believe Bush Sr lost his bid for a second term because he broke his read-my-lips promise, turning Republicans against him. That's part of it, but the whole story involves neocons upset he hadn't taken Bahgdad on the road to fulfilling their vision of global economic imperialism. They turned on him hoping they could appeal better to Clinton, who was too cautious, and had to wait for the impulsive Bush Jr. You can see some of this history in statements and letters on the PNAC site--pay close attention to signatories and the roles they have played in Bush's presidency. Most of the same appear in an excellent, broad-stroked overview documentary on the subject PBS did about 2.5 years ago: War Behind Closed Doors: Evolution of the Bush Doctrine. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 8 2004, 10:51 AM Post #21 |
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Chris. Do you have an opinion as to why the PNAC doctrine was not aired out to the public? It certainly wasn’t for the lack of interviews with it’s members. Why weren’t the letters to Clinton printed? |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 8 2004, 12:34 PM Post #22 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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But they are and have been publicly available. The Wolfowitz, I mean Pearle, no, darn, the Bush Doctrine was published publicly. I forget the dates. A little bit of research would show discussion of this from the think tanks and political journals. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 8 2004, 01:51 PM Post #23 |
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Chris I understand that they were available. But they were not revealed and discussed on the news. It seemed the Swiftboat crisis and the National guard problems were of greater concern to the news services.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 8 2004, 05:23 PM Post #24 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Oh, why weren't they discussed during the campains. Old news best left swept under the run of history? Just not sensational enough? Takes time to get your mind wrapped around it? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Nov 8 2004, 07:39 PM Post #25 |
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Chris says: Just not sensational enough? Buddy says: I found them quite titillating. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 8 2004, 07:58 PM Post #26 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Here is an interesting analysis by another think tank on the The Waning Influence of Neo-Conservative Strategists that may explain the lack of concern.
He leaves it open as to whether it is a lasting silence. He sees Powell's rise to power as following on that silence, however, rumors also have it that Powell, Ashcroft May Be Axed In Reshuffle. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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8:24 AM Jul 11