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| Random Thought | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 5 2004, 10:56 PM (586 Views) | |
| Paul ADK | Nov 5 2004, 10:56 PM Post #1 |
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Member
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Sixty eight years ago, a fellow by the name of Dale Carnegie sat down and wrote a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People." I mention this because the common sense lessons and techniques contained therein, should be required reading for any democrat who hopes at some point to sway voters to his or her way of thinking. Screaming "Bush is a moron, and so is anyone who voted for him." may have some cathartic value for editors at the Times and Guardian, but people have long memories. Four years from now when those same institutions attempt to explain why voters should follow their lead and support the "progressive" candidate, don't be surprised to find the answer is "up yours." |
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| cmoehle | Nov 5 2004, 11:00 PM Post #2 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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"up yours." Seems both Dems and Reps ought to start reading. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| pentax | Nov 5 2004, 11:42 PM Post #3 |
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Kamloops - BC Interior
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You both make good points - both sides need to tell us what they plan to do, and not why the other guy is the North end of a horse trotting South. |
![]() (thumbnail) ![]() "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!" | |
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| tomdrobin | Nov 6 2004, 08:10 PM Post #4 |
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Member
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I know a couple of people that voted for Bush, that don't fit the demographic at all. No strong religious views or oppostion to abortion. Low wage earners that struggle to make a living. No health care insurance. They are my relatives and I was surprised they voted for Bush. I think the reason they preferred Bush over Kerry, was he appears to be more like "common folk". Kerry had trouble connecting with people like this, and that may have hurt him in the election IMO. |
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| pentax | Nov 6 2004, 10:30 PM Post #5 |
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Kamloops - BC Interior
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Well, tom, I'm not trying to drag up all the old crap - Lord knows we have all had a gut-full by now - and youre right; Kerry is not a "man-on-the-street" kind of guy. But to say that Bush is an everyday Joe is really stretching it for me - ubless you mean this song was written for him: " Some folks are born made to wave the flag, Ooh, they’re red, white and blue. And when the band plays hail to the chief, Ooh, they point the cannon at you, lord, It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no senator’s son, son. It ain’t me, it ain’t me; I ain’t no fortunate one, no. Yeah! Some folks are born silver spoon in hand, Lord, don’t they help themselves, oh. But when the taxman comes to the door, Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes, It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no millionaire’s son, no. It ain’t me, it ain’t me; I ain’t no fortunate one, no. Some folks inherit star spangled eyes, Ooh, they send you down to war, lord, And when you ask them, how much should we give? Ooh, they only answer more! more! more! yoh, It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no military son, son. It ain’t me, it ain’t me; I ain’t no fortunate one, one, one." |
![]() (thumbnail) ![]() "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!" | |
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| MDPD6320 | Nov 6 2004, 10:54 PM Post #6 |
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
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I find that the people I know that voted for Bush are not overly religious, not wealthy, and not business people. Some are "pro choice". Many feel the democrats would like to cut and run rather than win in Iraq. Most of the people I talk to that voted for Bush, are blue collar workers with modest incomes and regular jobs. They mostly say the same thing. They want the government out of their pockets and their hair. They don't want politicians running their lives for them, they know what is best for their families. They feel taxes are too high. While they worry about medical care, most are insured by the firms they work for. They resent and distrust the "Mainstream Media". They get most of their news from the TV rather than newspapers, and mostly cable news. They strongly resent foreigners who "disapprove" of their country. They are kind and giving but cannot understand why neither party will take a stand against illegal aliens. I take that back they do understand and they are angry about it. The idea that those that vote republican are from the wealthy business sector are wrong. They are the democrats of 40 years ago. Frank |
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" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
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| corky52 | Nov 6 2004, 11:15 PM Post #7 |
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Member
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One of the things I find about most of the people I've meant that claim to have voted for GWB is that they have no concept of reducing government spending to match the tax cuts, nor do most of them understand that because of this spending that they will be paying a hidden tax in the form of high interest rates in the next few years. To most of them the war in Iraq is simply on TV and they have no real contact with the human cost of it. I wish that the draft would comeback simply so they would understand the cost of their votes. Maybe it will!! One thing for sure the decision is made and we all now live with the consequences. Don't try to convince me, just go and pray that the leader you elected does a better job in the next four years than he's done in the last four. |
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| pentax | Nov 6 2004, 11:34 PM Post #8 |
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Kamloops - BC Interior
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I've said for months that you cant believe either one of them on that one, corky. It's only a matter of time before more guys (and women) start saying; "The Hell youre extending my service - I did my bit!" Then what? Sure I know that the so-called "bill" was a Demo set-up, but dont be too surprised if you hear about it again - and in less than a year. |
![]() (thumbnail) ![]() "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!" | |
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| bikemanb | Nov 7 2004, 07:05 AM Post #9 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Succinctly put Corky, I wish Bush and the country smooth sailing but dread the potential consequences if he doesn't realize that reality and dogma are two different things. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| brewster | Nov 7 2004, 10:40 AM Post #10 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Frank;
A question that has come to me before, and I've seen it mentioned in passing here and elsewhere... Do they separate foreigners who disapprove of Bush from foreigners who disapprove of the US in general? Bush is despised in most of Canada, and about the best he could find here is mild dislike. But most Canadians don't dislike or disapprove of the US! |
My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| Lon Frank | Nov 7 2004, 12:33 PM Post #11 |
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Member
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Oh, no Brewster! You don't get to qualify for the coveted "foriegner" status so easily at that. You must satisfy two of the three following criteria: - Be a "different" skin color (non white) - Speak a "different" language than English - Originate in a country separated from the US by one of more oceans So, you see, only a French speaking black Canadian would even be routinely considered. Of course, there is a compicated system of wild cards which come into play, regarding your level of education and your alliance to the personal agendas of the person making the determination as to your status. This explains why Californians are regarded as foreigners by many in Bush America. :laugh: |
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| MDPD6320 | Nov 7 2004, 04:38 PM Post #12 |
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
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To clarify- foreign i.e. non-American ( People with loyalities to countries other than the USA) I know that many people believe themselves to be superior in intellect, education and morality than others. Most people I talk to do not except their judgement to be superior to their own. We (I will include myself here) resent the attacks equating us to morons, as in the British press. We hear the distaste for our views in the voices of the elite and "educated" at home. We resent unjustified insinuation of prejudice because we prefer to use plain traditional language rather than artificial "politically corret" euphemisms. I have been attacked and ridiculed because of my political beliefs over the years; it doesn't bother me anymore. The voice of the conserative American has been on the rise since Goldwater's defeat in '64. More and more working class people see that the democrat party held power for many years and did nothing for them, and they are changing. More and more hispanics and blacks are voting conserative agendas. The liberal left has been on the wrong side of every issue since 1964. They have consistantly lost influence and credibility, but they still say that they are smarter, wiser, and know better than the American mainstream. Wrong again ! Frank |
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" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
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| cmoehle | Nov 7 2004, 04:56 PM Post #13 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The writers I like to read like Buckley, Will, Sowell--I could go on to list many--are intellectuals, fairly elite, and strongly conservative. The notion that intellectuals and elitists are liberal is bunk, just more crapola from politicians, pundits and partisans. Conservatism rose with Goldwater's defeat--southern conservative Democrats switching parties--and saw its peak with Reagan and Gingrich, when social(ist) conservatives and neoconservative ex-Troskyites turned it left to follow the Democrats to irrelevance. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| telcoman | Nov 7 2004, 05:03 PM Post #14 |
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Member
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Lets just hope the next election is fought on the issues not the pasts of the candidates. |
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| campingken | Nov 7 2004, 05:10 PM Post #15 |
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Member
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The voice of "conservative" America has been silenced. The Republicans have gone from a "pay as you go" to '"spend and pray" method of government. Bush recently said that he "earned capital" in this election and now he plans to spend this capital. Someone had better wake him up as he spent everything during his first 4 years. Iraq has been running a billion a week and the cost is not even included in the current budget. The last I heard we need another 70 BILLION to keep on fighting. His SS idea will cost a TRILLION (I really have no idea how much this is). If Bush follows through on the "Axis of Evil" campaign I hope that his supporters will think that their tax cut and "values" are worth watching their sons march off to war. I have meant many Bush and the war on terror supporters who are NOT willing to send their own sons. I have nothing but CONTEMPT for these people and agree with Corky that a draft is or will be needed. Ken |
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