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Ralph Klein's Last Election
Topic Started: Nov 5 2004, 02:01 PM (847 Views)
pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
All of which, in your post, is just an explanation of why your Government, with more money than anyone else, didnt deal with the buggers itself, but handed them off to your next-door neighbour.

It hasnt been forgotten, Bruce..... <_<. I believe thats about when the term "Albortions" got popular out here.

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brewster
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Naw, you guys fixed it by getting rid of the NDP (Good Idea, by the way...) - - Now they're all coming back, and you guys didn't give them any Bus Tickets!
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brewster
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Here's an interesting quote from Tomdrobin on the Health Care thread:
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Seems like the majority of tools and building materials I buy these days have the "made in Canada" stamp. Health care probably figures into their competitiveness on the world market.


A big reason for Ralph's popularity is the series of incentives that he has put in place for Business - very low taxes on Business, low taxes in general, good schooling... The list goes on & on...

Ralph and the Alberta Conservatives are starting to prove that LOW WAGES ARE NOT THE ONLY WAY to attract business...

That growing sucking sound you hear is jobs coming to Alberta up Interstate 15 from Mexico...
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telcoman
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Alberta has a bit of an advantage due to its revenue from energy, especially in the 70's. I dont' want to comment on Ralph because I have never lived in Alberta. One advantage to what has happened there , is you don't have the see-saw politics you get in BC. It also seems that every government here has had scandal after scandal, both the left & right wing ones.
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
Sorry gang, we have a satellite channel that runs the previous night's Leno at 7:00 - pretty handy. Not only was his monologue good tonight, but he had McCain as a guest.

For all you Americans, it's THIS old Canadian fart's opinion (and I am not alone), that John McCain is possibly the Greatest President you never had....

I wish Alberta well - Ralph has the correct fiscal approach, but I dont know he has a lot of heart. But that fits well with the "Alberta approach". With some measure of justification (cant really blame 'em), its a case of "We'll look after our own first." More power to ya - but take care that other folks dont become a bit resentful of it.
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brewster
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Pentax;

I think every Albertan is very aware of how easy it is to become resentful... :thinking:

That's part of the reason we're more than willing to take in others, to invest in other provinces, whatever... :yes:

If you're willing to work to help yourself, either Individually or Provincially, Ralph and the rest of Alberta will do everything Ottawa will allow. Remember, Alberta has a steady influx of good, hardworking people from all over Canada, and I have never heard a peep of protest... Even you, Pentax, would be welcome. :laugh:

But, in keeping with the Conservative Philosophy, sit around and you'll "Freeze in the Dark!" (Another Famous Albertan Conservative, Peter Lougheed, said that! Good Man that!) :hi5:
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
Speaking of Peter, someday you must tell me what became of the first Heritage Fund - I mean, it seems to me it was HUGE - and then a few years later it was gone - ???
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brewster
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The Heritage Fund is still around, Pentax. In fact, there's a fair number of Albertans who think Ralph should be kicking in, building it back up.

It took quite a beating in the Getty years, as it was just one more source of spending money for a bunch of Red Tories who just couldn't get enough...

It's used to finance many projects, especially other provinces, if they can't arrange conventional financing. I think we'd do more in the Maritimes if "Clawback Martin" didn't take it all back from equalization payments every time provincial revenues climbed.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Chris,

June 28 was our federal election where the Liberal party were elected as a minority government. It is expected that Prime Minister Martin will be defeated by a loss of confidence motion sometime around November or December of 2005. Minority governments can be very good because by their nature, they force the federal government to listen to what the opposition has to say. Normally, the mandate would last up to 5 years. Canadians would be very tee'd off if the Liberal party who is in power, calls an election much before 18 months after the June 28th election.

Provincial elections take place as the individual provinces call them--usually every 5 years.

Premier Klein, from Alberta, has been instrumental in forcing the federal government to lose some of their federal powers. For that he is thanked--realistically he is running unopposed because of his popularity.

There still remains a way to hear the western provinces in the federal parliament. It's a very sore point among western provinces. An answer to that dilemma needs to be found.

Sylvia

On edit--almost all of our political parties would be to the left of American parties as are most Canadians. Probably because we were founded by two nations--British and French, both of whom had rights guaranteed by the1867 BNA (British North America Act)--the basis of the 1982 Constitution. (If bringing this into the discussion doesn't animate Pentax and brewster nothing will!) :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin:
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brewster
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Sylvia;

Good post - a nice, economical description of the situation. :yes:

The "On edit" does lead to a couple of points - As Chris has pointed out on many occasions, Fiscal liberalism/conservatism should be separated from Social ones. :professor:

I agree that on Social issues, both mainstream Canadian parties would be generally left of the US ones. :hug:

But fiscally they are both moving right, gradually following the Ralph Klein Revolution. Even the Socialist NDP are at least paying lip service to the Balanced Budget concept. This puts them ALL to the right of BOTH US parties. :cowboy:

As for the mention of the BNA Act, the only thing about it that animates me is the reminder of the 1982 butchery done by The Worst Prime Minister in Canadian History. It was rather like a surgeon repairing a broken collarbone by attaching a second head. A detailed discussion would be worth its own thread, but let's just say that his "improvements", such as the "Bill of Rights", show his (lack of understanding / willful misunderstanding) of the Parliamentary form of government and his (profound distrust of / total disdain for) the Canadian People. :unbelievable:

As Ralph Klein once said,
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It's easy to govern well in Alberta. Whenever I'm in a tight spot, and don't know which way to turn, I say to myself, "What would Trudeau have done in this situation?" Then I do the opposite.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Sylvia "There still remains a way to hear the western provinces in the federal parliament. It's a very sore point among western provinces. An answer to that dilemma needs to be found."

But if Provinces are stronger than the Federal Govt, why can't the Western ones be heard? Can be because of the minority Liberals under Martin as being a minority forces them to listen. I want to joke that it is distance--but it be so historically that distance kept them out of hearing in the early days?


Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Yes, Bruce, I think you can abstract fiscal and social issues and separate them. Doing so gives us a two dimentional model, not unlike the Libertarian World's Smallest Political Quiz. But there's a certain risk involved, doing so all hell breaks loose with contemporary labels.

If you put fiscal views and values on a scale on one dimension today we might say the conservative view advocates less government control and the liberal more. Problem there, in terminology, is historically the opposite was true, and in fact in dicussing world trade, you just don't talk about conservatizing trade--sounds protectionist--no, you talk about liberalizing trade in a free market economy.

To make matters worse if you put what I take as social views and values on a scale on one dimension today we might say, what? Going by contemporary meanings both sides seem to favor more protection of individual rights over centralized authoritative government. In back both sides accuse the other of the opposite of their views if extremes are pursued, the conservatives accussing liberals of socialism and the liberals accusing the conservatives of fascism. And what's the difference when one is authoritative for the good of society and the other for the good of the state? But once again in dicussing world, you just don't talk about spreading conservative democracy--sounds hesitantly oxymoronish--no, you talk about spreading liberal democracy.

So how are we to understand each other? And not just across our common border.

Anyway that was a long-winded lead in to I think I understand what you mean when you now distinguish fiscal conservatism and liberalism, but I'm not clear on the social aspect. My guess is you favor less governmental interference in social and personal matters, but you seem to say you are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. And I'm not sure what you mean.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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brewster
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Chris;

To answer your first questions to Sylvia:

The problem comes down to one I listed in another thread: While there are fiscal and Social differences between Liberals and Conservatives, the fundamental difference is the view of Canada 's Future. The Conservatives see contined strong provincial governments, controlling much of what goes on. The Liberals want to move to a stronger central core. These very viewpoints explain why so many Provincial Governments are Conservative (or at least non-Liberal) while the Federal Liberals are almost permanently in power in Ottawa. Each can make a strong case that they are doing the best for their constituency when they go to the polls.

It's not that the Provinces are not heard in Ottawa, it's that their message is completely dismissed as irrelevant and out of touch with how Canada should be governed.
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brewster
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To answer the questions you addressed to me, I'll try to avoid conventional labels and go with the policies. I'll let you attach the labels:

The fiscal policies are the easiest to address:

After many years of "Borrow and Spend" policies, under the influence of the Ralph Klein Revolution, nearly every Canadian Government now believes you cannot pass your debt problems on to your grandchildren, and all, in one form or another, are working to balance the books and pay off previous debts. In addition, they all believe that the way to assist industry is to remove the roadblocks, not give handouts. This includes free trade with the rest of the world.

Now it's your turn. Attach a label.

Now, Social Values. because there are so many, they'll come in point form:
(Keep in mind that these general terms apply to both major parties. There are slight differences, but from the outside they would be difficult to pick out.)

The "Religious Right" is viewed with suspicion, and has no real power. Both parties contain these types of people, but they have been told to sit down and shut up.

All people should have a basic "safety net" - Health Insurance, Unemployment Insurance, Canada wide Pension Plan, world class Education. (My personal take on this is that the two parties come at this from a slightly different perspective - the Liberals believe it's a "right", the Conservatives that it is inherently more expensive to the country to NOT supply these services.)

Gun Control, at least of Pistols and Assault weapons, is a Good Thing - It reduces crime, makes the populace safer, etc. And statistics back them up. Of all Freedoms, Freedom from Fear is one that is very important to all Canadians.

Canada is rapidly moving to legalizing of Marijuana - it already is de facto, for medical reasons. Studies show it is much less harmful than drinking, for instance.

Gay marriage is controversial, but anyone looking impartially will see that neither party is going to block it, in spite of the fact that PM Martin blustered that he would.

There are many within the Conservative Party that would like to limit Abortion, and quite a few in the Liberal Party as well, but not enough to actually see abortion laws restricted.

Canadian Culture is to be supported, both legislatively and financially. Not forced on people, just supported.

I think I could add more, but that will give you the drift. Attach a label.
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brewster
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Back to the original topic:

Klein is suffering from the most criticism he's ever sustained in any campaign, mostly because he is promising so little. It is quite apparent nowthat he'll quit early, probably right after the Queen's visit, and many are upsetr with habving a "Lame Duck" Premier. None of this will stop him from being elected, butit's unsettling to hear even this much criticism.

A snippet from the Calgary Herald:
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Then there's an election platform even insiders acknowledge "is so light you could drop it from a tree and it would take three minutes to hit ground."

Picture a province on the eve of its centennial celebration with an $8-billion surplus piling high in the government's vault. Um, sorry. No other premier in Canada could have such a vivid imagination.

But flushed with petro-dollars and a blue-sky future, Klein has promised this: To "maintain a positive investment and business climate" while "working towards long-term viability of the agricultural industry" and "ensuring Alberta's children get a good start in life" from a government planning to "preserve the land we love, the air we breathe and the water we drink."

Yuck.

We all know elections are not the best place to talk detailed policy, but motherhood has been raised to a new level with Klein's sugary mush.

Klein is known to be itching to revolutionize the province's health-care system, but refuses to discuss specifics until the campaign ends. After a parade of government studies in the last term, Klein plans an international symposium next year before kickstarting yet another long, drawn-out public consultation.


And the posturing of Klein's Ministers is becoming more evident as they get ready to take over at his retirement... So Far it looks like nearly every member of the Cabinet sees him/herself as Premier!

Could get even more interesting...
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