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Ralph Klein's Last Election
Topic Started: Nov 5 2004, 02:01 PM (842 Views)
brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
I posted somewhere about a week ago that once the US Federal Election was over, I’d start a thread about OUR election here in Alberta. So Here We Go….

First off, let’s start at the end. On November 22, Ralph Klein and his Conservative Party will win... Polls show that the Conservatives have nearly 60% of the popular vote, and Ralph himself is running about 10% ahead of his party.

In fact, that’s Ralph’s biggest problem. A quote:
Quote:
 
Klein's government has been under fire for providing few details of the Tories' vision for Alberta, particularly on health-care reform.
On Thursday, the premier said his government would soon be looking at suggestions from around the world and would then consult with Albertans.
He said he couldn't speak about his own ideas because they would be portrayed as government policy.
Quote:
 
I have thoughts, but the moment I say what I'm thinking, then it becomes policy and that's what's going to happen,
Klein said.

It’s a tough situation he’s in, you must admit.

Now then, since it’s all decided, what’s this election for, then?
What it’s really about is who’s going to win NEXT TIME!

The biggest fight is between potential replacements for Saint Ralph within the Conservative party – I’m expecting a few fistfights.

Then there’s EVERYBODY else: (All of whom want a shot at all that lovely money Ralph’s saved up!)
The Liberals – they had 7 of the seats last time, expect to pick up BIG gains (four more seats? That’s better than 50% improvement!) No big ideas, but they’d do everything Ralph’s already doing, but BETTER!
The New Democrats – Socialists? In Alberta?? Let’s move on… (Probably 4 seats, all in Edmonton, where the Civil Service still hates Ralph.)
Alberta Alliance – Basically VERY Right Wing, they’re yelling that Ralph is Federal Liberal Lackey, a Closet Socialist – well, you get the idea. They would break every link they could with Ottawa, short of actually pulling out of Canada. (maybe 3-4 seats, and a place to yell about their Agenda for Next Time.
Separatist Party of Alberta – The name says it all – they actually have a bigger popular vote than some others, but no focus – so no seats.

Do you know how hard it is to run a “Next Time” campaign???
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brewster
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One fascinating development so far in the campaign.

Ralph made a couple of verbal blunders early - the worst was making nasty comments about people faking disabilities, in front of two women who weren't faking... :no:

Then we found out part of the reason - Ralph's Mom was dying - this led to something that I have never heard of before! :unbelievable:

Ralph left the Campaign Trail for 5 days when his Mom died, and all parties suspended operations until he came back! The whole election apparatus ground to a halt! :unbelievable:

Where else could such a thing happen??? :dunno:

By the way, Ralph's back, and he's his old jolly self - away we go! :hi5:
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
So who in the Conservative party is starting to look good as Ralph's replacement?

Sylvia
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brewster
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Well, Sylley, for a while it looked like Health Minister Gary Mar. He filled in quite well at the last Health Conference where Ralph skipped out early, and some thought he did a better job than Ralph would have, getting a reasonable settlement without the grandstanding.

But a few weeks ago, he got caught with his fingers in the cookie jar - paying $250,000 per year for "consultation fees" to a personal buddy. Ralphie's thrown him in the penalty box, so I think his stock is down.

The next leading contender was Patricia Nelson, the Finance Minister who guided us to the big surplus... She was Ralph's choice, I think, and would have been the most powerful woman in Canadian politics(maybe she already is!). But she has just announced she's retiring...

I'll keep a running count...
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TexasShadow
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Jane
Brewster
What are the big issues for Canadians?
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Good, another election. It would be good to get more USAns involved for they'd have no personal values at stake, no sound bytes to ditto, or vested interest other than pure politics, and would have to base arguments on principle.

I'll tag along and try to keep up, the experience should prove valuable.

Catching up, some questions. Simple, I hope.

Why is Ralph Klein retiring from politics after this term? Do you have term limits or he is aging or he wants to explore other things?

This might sound uneducated and I suppose I could look it up, but is Ralph running for provincial or national office?

In the same vien as politics coming to a halt for the death of Ralph's mother, do Canadians tend to call their politicians by first name rather than last like us?

This one might be tougher. Bruce, I notice you call the party the Conservative Party. But I've read it is actually the Progressive Conservative Party. Can you explain? Here progressive is sometimes used interchangably with liberal. What is the meaning up there? Is it an alliance of two older parties?

While we're at it, just to clarify something else I've been meaning to ask, it seems Canadians use the phrase social conservative differently than we do. Here social conservatives are the compassionate conservatives, the religious conservatives, who, to the dismay of traditional fiscal conservatives, are taking over the Republican Party, and, in my opinion, leading it left into liberalism if not socialism. I don't get that same sense of the word from you and Murray and Sylvia and others. Could you touch on that?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
I'll let Bruce answer most of that, aside from I think this will be Ralphs fourth term as Provincial Premiere, like your State Guv.

There's little religious influence in Canadian politics, at any level. There used to be some in Quebec politics many years back (heavily Catholic), but I dont hear much about it anymore. In the last Federal campaign Stephen Harper (Conservative) ended one speech with "God Bless Canada" - the overwhelming reaction among people was "WTH was THAT all about???"
He didnt do it again.....

I would guess "social conservative" would primarily relate to law-and-order, and the degree of state Welfare and other assistance-type programmes. Its actually not a widely-used term most of the time.
Ralph is definately on the right in that way - so much so that he has pissed some of us off at times. One of Alberta's stunts a number of years back was for their Welfare Offices to give out free one-way bus tickets to Vancouver BC to many recipients.

We were not impressed.....


I'd write more, but I have a very sore wrist today (gout).

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Thanks, Mur. Helps me get my feet wet without diving in headfirst. :titanic:
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
I should also add that the term would apply to HeathCare as well, though even most of the right wants to preserve our Medicare system,too. However, some who are quite right, want a "two-tier" system, with more "private facilities" than there are now.

But all in all, the idea of "Hey, let's build a hospital and make a fortune!" is very foreign to us - in fact, it's just plain weird.....
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brewster
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Chris, Let's see if I can answer some of your questions.

Why is Ralph Klein retiring from politics after this term? Do you have term limits or he is aging or he wants to explore other things?
No term limits - Ralph is 62 now, and our terms are 5 years. That would make him 67 if he stays the course. It's just that he's accomplished everything he promised when he first came to office, and this term is to ease the transition.

I should point out that Canadian terms are "UP TO" 5 years, but the ruling party can call it earlier - usually they do, in abt 4 1/2 yrs. Why Early? Because they try to pick a time when they're "up" in the polls... Waiting till the last minute might catch them down.

Ralph never has to worry about being "down" - he is actually calling this one after 3 1/2 years, because next year is Alberta's Centennial - the Queen's coming. parties all year - no time for an election. That's the other reason he's running this time, to be "there" for the party.


This might sound uneducated and I suppose I could look it up, but is Ralph running for provincial or national office?
Ralph's running for Provincial Premier, equivalent to State Governor. Remember, under the Canadian Constitution, Provinces are fully equal to the Federal Gov't, they're just responsible for different things... The Federal Leader of the Conservatives is Stephen Harper - they are on very much the same page on Fiscal Policy, in fact developed it together.

In the same vien as politics coming to a halt for the death of Ralph's mother, do Canadians tend to call their politicians by first name rather than last like us?
Nope - Normally, it's Martin, Harper, etc. But Ralph is Ralph

This one might be tougher. Bruce, I notice you call the party the Conservative Party. But I've read it is actually the Progressive Conservative Party. Can you explain? Here progressive is sometimes used interchangably with liberal. What is the meaning up there? Is it an alliance of two older parties?
Yes, Progressive Conservative is an old name for the Alliance of two parties back in the 1920's. Interestingly, the "Progressives" were the more right wing at the time. The National party now calls itself "The Conservative Party of Canada", (I call them the "New Conservatives") but the provinces haven't caught up yet.

While we're at it, just to clarify something else I've been meaning to ask, it seems Canadians use the phrase social conservative differently than we do. Here social conservatives are the compassionate conservatives, the religious conservatives, who, to the dismay of traditional fiscal conservatives, are taking over the Republican Party, and, in my opinion, leading it left into liberalism if not socialism. I don't get that same sense of the word from you and Murray and Sylvia and others. Could you touch on that?
There are very few true "Social Conservatives" in Canada, in the sense of the Religious Right in the US.

The "New Conservatives" are very Conservative fiscally, as you've seen, but neither Ralph Klein nor Stephen Harper want any part of Conservative Social Issues.
They're pretty much middle of the road, and stay away, saying at most that Gay Marriage, Abortion, etc. are not proper subjects for closed debate in Parliament or Supreme Court, and need to be handled in Referendums, if at all...
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Much appreciated.

Having elections mid-term seems like it could get messy and confusing. Is it a vote in Parliament that determines if and when that happens?

Ralph is calling for re-election after 3.5 years?

Your New Conservatives don't sound like our neoconservatives.

What was June 28, 2004, all about? We spent a lot of time discussing that. Seems you all are always politicking.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
cmoehle
Nov 5 2004, 05:34 PM
Having elections mid-term seems like it could get messy and confusing. Is it a vote in Parliament that determines if and when that happens?


That would only in the case of a Minority government, as we have now Federally.
If the various Oppostion Parties "ganged" up for a No Confidence Vote, they would out-number the ruling Liberals, and that all but force the PM to call an election.

Other than that, the PM or Premier calls an election themselves, at whatever they think is the most opportune time near the end of the mandate.
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brewster
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Quote:
 
We spent a lot of time discussing that. Seems you all are always politicking.


Yup, it seems that way to me as well. What makes it worse, we just had our Civic Elections two weeks ago...

The thing is, up here each level of government runs its own world, so there is no coordination between levels... This is actually very unusual, to have them all in one year....

I still can't get over the concept of STATES running the election for PRESIDENT! Why isn't that a strictly Federal responsibility???
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Bruce "STATES running the election for PRESIDENT! Why isn't that a strictly Federal responsibility???"

To keep some power at the state level. Remember when we wrote out Constitution we were a weak conferderation of strong states. That has faded through our history, and is fading faster with increasing democratization and marketing of politics. We have ended up with a much more centralized form of politics and government than Canada if provinces are on equal footing with your federal government.
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brewster
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Pentax;

Quote:
 
Ralph is definately on the right in that way - so much so that he has pissed some of us off at times. One of Alberta's stunts a number of years back was for their Welfare Offices to give out free one-way bus tickets to Vancouver BC to many recipients.

We were not impressed.....


Actually Pentax, that was a joke carried to its full conclusion.

It started with Ralph's famous "Eastern Bums and Creeps" speech a year or two earlier as Mayor of Calgary. he hasn't been totally forgiven for that one either.

But you had to be here to know the facts - first, those "Bums and Creeps" were ALL OVER the streets of Calgary, to the point that you literally could NOT walk through downtown. None of them were willing to work, all of them had a chip on their shoulder, and then-Premier Getty was handing out money like he was making it himself. There seemed to be a competition between Getty and the NDP (Socialist) gov't in BC as to who could hand out the most.

When Ralph came to power, that was the first thing he stopped. In fact, after a year or so, he stopped all handouts to able-bodied people. (Remember, after Ralphie's first two years in power we actually had a NEGATIVE jobless rate - if you didn't have a job, it was because you were RUNNING AWAY from it!)

So suddenly not only were handouts cut, for many people they were eliminated entirely. These "Bums and Creeps" started crying that they could do much better in BC.

Ralphie said, "Well then, GO to BC!".
But they cried, "We have no money to go!"
So Ralph blustered that the only thing he'd give them was Bus tickets, and said it was the last money they'd ever get from Alberta. Everybody thought he was joking, and he was, at first.

But they kept crying, and it became a serious issue. Finally, Ralphie, in a fit of generosity, GAVE them the tickets.

For many Albertans, including myself, it was one of the few times we were ever p--d off at Ralph. I wouldn't have given them ANYTHING! They could find their own transport! They managed to get to Alberta in the first place, didn't they?

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