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Why Bush Won.
Topic Started: Nov 4 2004, 03:27 PM (408 Views)
BuddyIAm
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Why Bush won.



American’s have no more desire to free Iraqi’s today. Than we had desires to free the Vietnamese in 1970.

Americans are tired and disgusted with this war. But we continue to support it. Why?

Why , can’t we leave Iraq? Why can’t we cut and run from a war, we no longer believe in?

Stupid pride is the answer.......

Those that lived through V.N. understand what I am saying.

Why did young men have to continue to die in V.N.?

Because patriots did not want to see America shamed. We had to win at all costs. We had to save face.

It is the same false pride that is killing our troops today.

Just like V.N. we will continue to kill American troopers for a cause our leaders have already decided, must be won by the Iraqi's themselves.

Our Troopers are proud brave Americans.

They are dieing for false messengers, with false patriotism..

Bush won because NO PRESIDENT, has ever lost an election, while America was at war.
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
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cascade
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse
American's had no desire to free the Afgan's either, and even ignored them, BUT, what were the results, the WTC.
"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams

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tomdrobin
Member
Bush won because he played politics, plain and simple. He increased his support among hispanics with his "guest worker", and amnesty proposals. He solidified his support among right wing Christian conservatives by his anti abortion, and anti gay marriage stand. Both of these were enough to overcome the job loss and war negatives. I also think the marriage amendment proposals (man-woman only), were a real political windfall for him. It's a real emotional issue with a lot of people. And, I'm betting everyone who voted to ban gay marriage also voted for GW. Unfortunate fact of politics these days. I'm hoping things will change a bit, now that the pressure of getting reelected is off.
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BuddyIAm
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I can not imagine any connection between the Afghan people and the WTC/ 9/11. Except possibly a delivery of Afghan heroin.

The United States pre 9/11 ignored the Taliban. Because it had taken steps to stop the growth of heroin in Afghanistan. The Bush Administration looked upon the Taliban as a necessary evil in it’s fight in the war on drugs.

The instant America changed tactics to the War on Terror. Afghanistan renewed it’s heroin exports.

It may not be so traumatic. But the Afghans will produce more physical and economic harm on the U.S. than Osama Bin Laden and the 19 Saudi’s that attacked on 9/11.


I honestly don’t understand your point.

"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
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cascade
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse
BuddyIam
The Afgahan people were brutalized by the Taliban, under the leadership of OBL and in control of that country for years, and you see no connection to the WTC?
And if you believe a 15 second video clip showing poppies being plowed under by the same people who execute women for wearing the wrong clothing, had anything to do with the reduction of herion (never was), I will sell you some swamp land.
"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams

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telcoman
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The Republicans did a better job of getting their vote out than the Democrats. In an election that close, its as simple as that.
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BuddyIAm
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Cascade.

I see no connection between the Afghan PEOPLE and 9/11. Their hatred of what happened on 9/11, helped in the Taliban downfall. Will they continue to allow American Occupation? I don't think so.


The following statement does not agree with you. The Taliban who offered to reduce heroin supply in order to appease America. Has now returned to heroin production to strike back.

Afghanistan: Heroin Boom Funds Taliban Revival
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n798/a09.html
Newshawk: Doug McVay "http://www.CommonSenseDrugPolicy.org/"
"javascript:popUp('http://www.mapinc.org/mapcgi/dndvote.pl?v04/n798/a09')""javascript:popUp('http://www.mapinc.org/mapcgi/dndvote.pl?v04/n798/a09')""javascript:popUp('http://www.mapinc.org/mapcgi/dndvote.pl?v04/n798/a09')": 0
Pubdate: Mon, 31 May 2004
Source: Advertiser, The (Australia)
Copyright: 2004 Advertiser Newspapers Ltd
Contact: "mailto:advedit@adv.newsltd.com.au"
Website: "http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/"
Details: "http://www.mapinc.org/media/1"
Author: Rory Callinan, in Kandahar
Bookmark: "http://www.mapinc.org/heroin.htm" (Heroin)
HEROIN BOOM FUNDS TALIBAN REVIVAL

AFGHAN authorities fear this year's vast opium harvest will provide a huge narcotics war chest for Taliban and al-Qaeda terrorists who have been squeezed by new financial tracking operations.

The drug money is used to buy everything from satellite phones to ammunition, say officials who predict this year's opium crop will at least match last year's 3600-tonne harvest.

Afghanistan's Counter Narcotics Directorate chief, Mirwais Yasini, says he knows of at least two millionaire drug smugglers in league with Taliban rebels trying to destabilise the country's south. "We know ... the money they make is millions of dollars."

The claims are supported by the Kandahar Governor's spokesman, Khalid Pashtoon.

Pashtoon suspects one of the smugglers is supplying Taliban fighters with ammunition and satellite phones.

The terrorists are also suspected of taking a cut at other levels of opium production.

The head of the United Nations Office of Drug Control, Antonio Maria Costa, believes the smugglers are taxed by the terrorists at a rate of between 13 and 15 per cent of their load.

"Cultivation takes place in the centre of the country and then the opium is moved by convoys slowly towards the border of Iran or Pakistan," says Costa, who was to travel to Afghanistan this week to check on the drug trade.

"Periodically these convoys run into insurgents or paramilitary checkpoints and they are asked for a share."

Afghan authorities last month arrested a graduate of a feared al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani terror group who was farming opium poppies by day and launching pro-Taliban attacks by night.

Mohammed Suhil, 17, was arrested at a checkpoint in the country's dangerous Panjwayi region, which has been the scene of numerous fatal attacks on foreigners, government officials and NGOs.

Australian pilot Mark Burdorf died when his helicopter was sprayed with bullets as it took off from a village in the district in February.

Under the Taliban's ban in 2000, farmers planted only about 8000 hectares of poppies in Afghanistan, producing about 185 tonnes of opium, according to UN figures.

The following year, without Taliban control, 74,000 hectares were planted, producing a massive 3400 tonnes of opium. In 2003, production soared again to 3600 tonnes, with 80,000 hectares planted with poppies.

About 1.7 million Afghanis are involved in farming opium - or 7 per cent of the country's population, the UN says.

ALSO:


Human rights around the world are a concern. Afghanistan no worse than many..

Amina Lawal - another woman facing death by stoning
By "columnist.asp?id=737" - posted Sunday, September 15, 2002 "display.asp?page=subscribe""display.asp?page=subscribe"

Back in October 2001, 35-year old Safiya Hussaini was condemned to death, by stoning, for allegedly committing adultery. International outcry led by Amnesty International (the Merton Amnesty Group campaigned for Safiya - see "http://www.mertonai.org/nigeria.asp") helped save her life; she was acquitted on technical grounds by an appeal court.
Now 30-year old Amina Lawal (right) faces the same death sentence. Amina Lawal was sentenced to death by stoning by a Regional Court in Katsina State, Nigeria for having a child outside marriage. Her sentence was announced on 23 March 2002, three days before the day of Safiya's acquittal.
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
Beddows in correct. Some make it sound as if it is wrong to appeal to what politicians perceive as their base. Both Kerry and Bush appealed to those that they
perceived to be closer to the message they espoused.

Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Buddy,

I don't believe it was Afghanistan, Iraq or any other country outside of the United States. If you look at the states that were blue, they are all clustered near the Canadian border with the exception of Ohio. The other blue states were along the Pacific coast.

Bush is in touch with the southern states and shares many of their values--that is his base.

He just read the writing on the wall better than Kerry who is seen as elitist by much of the population. As far as I can see the division is along cultural lines.

The War was secondary--so too the economy.

Sylvia
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
I agree with Tom. Bush and team played better politics, i.e., he who panders best wins popularity contests.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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rednecker
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cmoehle
Nov 5 2004, 12:08 AM
I agree with Tom. Bush and team played better politics, i.e., he who panders best wins popularity contests.

Which explains why Clinton served two terms.
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rednecker
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tomdrobin
Nov 4 2004, 10:00 PM
And, I'm betting everyone who voted to ban gay marriage also voted for GW. Unfortunate fact of politics these days. I'm hoping things will change a bit, now that the pressure of getting reelected is off.

I'm not against homosexuals and have no problem or judgments against them. I don't however agree with calling it 'marriage'. Marriage is between a man and woman. Come up with another 'term' that represents the same 'basis' legally and 'emotionally' (can't think of another way to say it there) and then I have no problem with gay (put new word here).

Of course the same rules would have to apply to both marriage and gay ????.

Custody rights
Child Support
Alimony
etc...
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BuddyIAm
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Was there more success at delivering a message to Bush supporters? No, No one could tell me Bush’s true stand on Abortion, stem cell research, the economy, or war today.

Was it done by the Bush political machine. I don’t think so..

The Polls show that the major issue was Iraq.

Taxes CAN NOT be an issue for an informed voter. Look at the Red states. The average married household does NOT earn enough money to pay taxes. Bush could not help them with regards to taxes.

The Blue states are another matter. They have a higher average income. They could get some tax relief. But they did not vote for Bush.

The issue could not be Bush and the economy. Because there has been no economic growth and all the polls showed that Kerry was perceived to be better for the economy.

Health care? The polls give that issue to Kerry.

There are no difference between Kerry and Bush on the abortion, Stem cell and death penalty issues.

So those issues could not have been the deciding factor as presented by the Candidates.

I will give credit to the misinformed, those that gathered at the church social and listened to the fear mongers.

Without those self serving antagonists, that spoke of the evil anti GOD Kerry. The Iraq issue would not have been sufficient to push Bush over the top.


Bush had no mandate.

49.5% of Americans and the entire world wanted him out.

Now he speaks of leading as a centrist.

He wants to be like Clinton and Buddy..

MORE LIES...
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity."
"Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin
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Lon Frank
Member
Buddy, I swore I wouldn't get back on this bandwagon for a while, but....

This morning I caught a few minutes of a televised speach at the National News Club, by a talking head for some "progressive" political group. He was saying how the progressives wouldn't let Bush get away with the same-ole-same-ole; how they would fight to insure that he bowed to the wishes of the other half of the nation; how they would "invite" him to join them and raise wages, lower our debt, find affordable meds, get out of Iraq, etc. etc.

I wanted to grab the moron and shake him and scream in his face, "are you dreaming, or just plain STUPID?" Within 10 minutes of the election outcome, Bush spinners were on every channel screeching about what a landslide victory it was for "their side". How Bush won more votes than any President since George Washington himself. How it was a clear mandate for EXACTLY the same-ole-same-ole!

Bush won, because we elected him, plain and simple. Americans LOVE our home-spun wisdom, and a favorite old election day adge is "never change horses in the middle of a stream". It appears that particular logic applies, even if the horse is a run-away which put you in the stream in the first place.

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Banandangees
Member
I suppose we all see it differently. All the networks have their analysts giving the reasons for Bush winning. The reasons vary and both sides of the isle have their own partisan analysis.

But the thing that decided it was that the MAJORITY of the people by nearly 4,000,000 votes wanted him in office over Senator Kerry. In spite of his "faults and misjudgements," the majority see something in him as it concerns them that they didn't see in Senator Kerry. Maybe the majority of our country are ignorant. Maybe they are smart. Maybe they put more weight on morality/immorality, AS THEY SEE IT, than they do on war. Maybe the Michael Moores of the nation really turned off more people than he turned on. Maybe the majority don't really care what Hollywood thinks when it comes to their safety and wellfare. Maybe a majority of our people are liberal but not that liberal. Maybe the Democrate Party needs to re-evaluate who they hold up as role models to our youth to put in the face of the nation. Not hard to see the overwhelming red in the center of the country - the down-home-out-of-the-lime-light people.

A Leiberman or Sam Nunn Democrat could have won in my opinion. Left, but not to far left. Undoubtedly, Hillary Clinton will LOOK more moderate in the next few years; but, is it too late for her to fool the down home folks?
Banan
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