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I Have A Job, Kids And A College Education; Why he's not in Iraq
Topic Started: Oct 27 2004, 01:26 PM (514 Views)
corky52
Member
"And yes, I would rather it be your son than mine."

Only part of the whole post that applies and is just what I'm talking about. You teach your kid the same attitudes? You, GWB and crew!
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Banandangees
Member
No, it's not what we teach, it's what we feel. We feel no different about our loved ones than you do. My father felt the same way, but he shook by hand and gave me a hug when I left for active duty, just as I suppose you did.
Banan
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Sea Hound
Member

"And yes, I would rather it be your son than mine."

Anyone who is honest with themselves will make the same statement.
Anyone who does not,IMHO is a poor parent.
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corky52
Member
I don't feel the way you do, and I don't think many of the people I've talked to do. There seems to be lots of people who side with you though, most of them are here living good lives while allowing poor leadership and abysmal planning to get others hurt and killed in their name. All the ra-ra from those who "have other priorities" and are to important to put their bodies where their mouths are just kind of makes me wonder where our country is headed.
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Banandangees
Member
Perhaps I should have been more complete with that sentence by saying that "It's not what we teach our sons (daughters) - to want to be home where it's safe - It's what we feel for our sons and daughters that make us want them home where it's safe. Maybe we feel more the same than you think. Maybe we're saying the same thing from a different direction. As Sea Hound eluded to (unless I am misunderstanding him), what parent would say "no, don't send your son, I'll send mine." How many Abrahams are there in this country? It's not that I or anyone wants anyone's son to be at risk and we mourn if they don't return. But someones son has to go (UNFORTUNATELY) when the time comes just as they did since this country was born. How many son's died in the ill-advised battle at Gettysburg in just three days - over 50,000. How many loved ones mouned? How many looked on from a distance and also mourned. You mourn more when it is your loved one - you teach them to love and by doing so they mourn ( feel ) greater than if they didn't love so much. I think all of us mourn some everytime one of our sons or daughters is lost over there (or here), even if we didn't know them personally. Show me the one man who can lead this country and guarentee no more loss, no more mourning, has all the right answers and all the right solutions. I think most of us all feel your heart stings Corky. We just express it in different ways because most of us don't really know exactly what is the right way, what is the right solution, or who is the perfect leader.

Addendum - Perhaps if I would have substituted the word "wished" for the word "voted" in my first post, it would have been better. For in those battle situations, who would not have quietly "wished" to be back home where it would be safe and what loved-one (parent, wife) would not have quietly "wished" for them to be back home where it was safe. Isn't that what you are wishing for the ones over there right now - for them to be back here where it is safe?
Banan
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olstuf
Bill
The rich and connected seldom fight and the poor and average do. Been that way for a long while. Exceptions, certainly. Disportionate amount of minorities among the KIA and woulded. War 'ain't' video games. Real ammo hurts and kills. If they must go, then train them, equip them and lead them. In "Nam, we rotated grunts, in Iraq, we seem to be rotating officers. But I'm sorry. The war ended a few months ago. W said so on the carrier. He must have forgotten to tell the other side.
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irongoat
Member
What do you get when you educate a clod? A clod with an education.
"In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson
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cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Two clods running for President?





Sea Hound "If this is outside the perimeters of this board, delete.
No problem."

Absolutely not. Speak your mind. And let others. We frown only on going after the person posting, and you're not.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Banandangees
Member
olstuf
Oct 27 2004, 11:36 PM
The rich and connected seldom fight and the poor and average do. Been that way for a long while. Exceptions, certainly. Disportionate amount of minorities among the KIA and woulded. War 'ain't' video games.

But isn't that a product of doing away with the draft. You and I and Corky either enlisted or were drafted. When we were in, there was a definate cross section of young men - rich, poor and average - educated and uneducated - black and white of proper representation - from all areas of the country. Elvis Presely was in, Bing Crosby's son was in. Ted Williams was recalled in the prime of his career for a second tour. Presently, the majority of the country doesn't want the draft. So who enlists? Usually the minorities, the ones limited to a high school education or less, immagrants coming into the country looking to get a start. The KIAs represent that which most of the country wants - no draft. Now one candidate accuses the other of "plannng to reenact the draft to stike fear in the hearts of who? The other denies it. One says there were not enough troops in Iraq to do the job right to begin with and says he would put more in to take control and end it while not saying where he will get all these troops. The narrow cross section of KIAs and maimed are what it is because of the changes made by elected politicians who represent (supposedly) our wishes.

If only war could be done away with.
Banan
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
Corkey 52,

I understand your being indignant in regard to this young man's reply. I certainly agree that I would be worried beyond belief if my child were in a combat zone, however Banandangees is correct. It is not about parents. It is about the young that seek the job. And it is a good job with decent pay and benefits. Young folks seek what they see as the best opportunity for them, and for many it is the military. The all volunteer service has worked well. Any and every war is a terrible event, however, wherever there is freedom someone will have to fight to keep it.
In this cafe there is no free lunch.

In some small defense of the young man who answered you, we must keep in mind that we don't have to be boxers to critique the fight. If it were so we would all have to pack in it.

Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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corky52
Member
Frank,
It's not a job!!! It's an obligation we owe the country, the job idea is what let's the idiots get away with ideas like his. Careers be damned you owe for what you are, an American, not just taxes, your time and your blood if needed. I don't back the idea of a Draft, I back the idea of service for voting rights. Mercenaries fight for pay and benefits, patriots fight for their country. Why should you have a say in a society you're unwilling to defend?
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tomdrobin
Member
corky52
Oct 28 2004, 01:23 AM
Why should you have a say in a society you're unwilling to defend?

I'll go along with that one. But, defending your country isn't just the willingness to fight in the military. It's also supporting those who are doing the fighting, wether you agree with the reasons for the war or not. Challenging someone who is supporting our troops to volunteer themselves, and lashing out at them is a cheap shot IMO.
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corky52
Member
Tom,

Cheap shot is being willing to have a war fought for you, while having no intention of being involved. Cheap shot is being to busy to fight your own wars. Cheap shot is enjoying the rights while ducking the responsibilities.
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
Where I draw my objection is the tying of support for Bush with the support for our troops. I don't equate the two. It is the leap that far too many Bush supporters make, IMO, and has little or nothing to do with him, even as Commander and Chief. The only person I know who had a son in Iraq who was killed supports the troops, but is campaigning for Kerry. A few others who have kids in Iraq or recently returned from Iraq are also voting Kerry. It is not unpatriotic to vote for Kerry any more than it is supportive of our troops to vote for Bush.
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
With all the reports coming out concluding no active WMD programs and no operational terrorist ties, one wonders if such an argument is the last straw and whether, were it not an election year, it would be argued.

Keep in mind that while the argument against going may have come from Democrats initially, the arguments for pull out and of incompetence first came from Republicans (arose around the time of the first beheading).

Not challenging leads to tyranny.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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