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Un And Gun Control; Second Amendment Rights and the UN
Topic Started: Oct 26 2004, 06:32 PM (381 Views)
MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned that I fear Kerry's belief in the UN and its authority over this country. I tend to become verbose when this topic comes up so I will post a link.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33584

I believe that we ( the United States) should protect our sovereignty at all costs and in order to do so we must suspend our participation in the UN. The above is one of many reasons why.
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
I'm a bit over the national average, but I don't think the UN will ever dictate our national policy on fire-arm possession.
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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jackd
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And they (the UN) should not and will never be able to. It is way out of their role.... although it would propably be a good thing IMO.
jackD
Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
Like most Canadians, I think the US would be better off with some sort of control, at least over Handguns, but I guess that's your call. :dunno:

But the UN is going to force you to do it? You couldn't get the entire group to agree the sun's gonna rise tomorrow! :doh:

Go find a real worry somewhere! :stir:
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Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
I know that many will say it can't happen here in the US, however it happened in Austrailia, I believe that all guns must be registered in Canada as of a few years ago. (a very unpopular law but it has happened) I know that John Kerry favors a treaty that would give others the authority to try American military for "war crimes" (another UN favorite). I know that the UN would like the US to get on board the Kyoto Accords, to the detriment of the US economy, and I know there will be further attempts to open more "free trade" that will ultimately cost the US more jobs.

It's amazing that so many worry that the "Patriot Act" will erode their Constitutional rights, which it will not, but are so blase about the UN and their ability to obtain treaties that would effectively suspersede our basic rights.

Bye the way, how are you doing John. Haven't seen you in an age.
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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jackd
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MDPD6320
Quote:
 
I believe that all guns must be registered in Canada as of a few years ago.
. You're right, a few years ago..... 1936 (nineteen thirty six) to be more precise.
JackD
Walk in front of me, you lead me,
Walk behind me, I lead you
Walk beside me, you are a friend.
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
Jackd,

I understood that rifles and shotguns were required to be registered only a few years ago, and handguns were never allowed.
If this is not the case then I stand corrected.
Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
Yup, they added on more level of registration here, but that's not the problem, and it certainly had nothing to do with the UN.

This stupid law was supposed to make everyone register what they already had, whether the gun worked or not. It's not gun CONTROL, and they never said it was.

So it depended mostly on voluntary registration, which means it was never going to do anything, it was supposed to be enforced ??? by the provinces (I dunno what would be enforced) but nearly half the provinces wanted to have nothing to do with it, so for instance,here in Alberta, nothing happened at all...

Then the lawyers got involved, and won a case which said that it would be an invasion of privacy to have convicted felons register.

You know the old saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"?

This one goes one better - it would be ILLEGAL for a criminal to register his gun!

And we spent BILLIONS on this!


But don't get too complacent - it's my understanding there's really TEN gun laws already in the US for every ONE in Canada.

Most Canadians don't have guns, not because it's illegal (long guns in particular are completely legal) but because they're a bad idea.
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Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Thanks, Frank, as I requested the info.

I do not think I will have time tonight to read the article. But I do agree with you we should defend our soverinty at all costs, especially as regards the second amendment. I will suspend disbelief the UN (i.e., the US and other nations) would or could do this.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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tomdrobin
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brewster
Oct 27 2004, 01:48 AM
Most Canadians don't have guns, not because it's illegal (long guns in particular are completely legal) but because they're a bad idea.

Brewster
Bad idea? Maybe Canadians feel they have no need for a firearm for protection. That isn't just a social attitude. It reflects a difference in social makeup and crime. I've heard many Canadians remark here that they don't feel a need to lock their house and car doors too. Given that set of conditions, many in the USA, would feel no need for a firearm also. Not having a firearm won't make crime go away. Fewer criminals and less crime would lessen the perceived need for a firearm.
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
Brewster,

I thought that I was correct about the registration of rifles and shotguns. The problem is (at least it would be here, perhaps it's different in Canada) if there is a law on the books, even if it is not enforced today, who knows when it may be.
You say that the UN wasn't involved. Your probably right, but how can one know what pressures, promises, and deals are cut by politicians?

You say registration is not gun control? Really, I consider it gun control, and most US gun owners do. ( after all, as a bud of mine used to say, "the west wasn't won with a registered gun")

After all of the foregoing I must say that I didn't intend this to be a criticism of Canadian law. After all, each of us does what he thinks best. I only want to call attention to the fact that the UN is deeply involved with fostering gun control in countries around the world.

Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
Tom;

I don't want to go down this road. It's not you....

I've wasted a lot of time on this one in AtC, and said some things I wish I hadn't - I cannot be reasonable on this issue. So I will repeat what I said, but don't make me explain it - to me it's so blindingly obvious that arguing about it just sends my blood pressure sky high. As I said, it's my problem, not yours.

HANDGUNS ARE A BAADD IDEA!


My last comment on the subject.
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Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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olstuf
Bill
Gun CONTROL would have been disarming Iraqi military and citizenry. Most new gun purchases since around 1968 are technically registered. That is, you must sign an affidavit as to your citizenship, mental state etc. Some states, such as Illinois and Iowa required a type of background check long before such a law was passed recently. I too, am above the so called national average and some of the weapons were purchased thru dealers and so registered. Others thru private sales are not. In no way do I consider the registration of weapons control. Control means to me, that I cannot possess weapons. Mr. Barr is typical of the people who want to use these scare tactics to make his point.
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ImaHeadaU
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Vancouver, B.C., Canada
MDPD6320
Oct 26 2004, 06:05 PM
You say registration is not gun control?  Really, I consider it gun control, and most US gun owners do. ( after all, as a bud of mine used to say, "the west wasn't won with a registered gun")

Perhaps and the registration of automobiles is car control. They are both a good thing. When one is involved in illegal activity, they are easier to trace making it easier to trace the sources from which criminals access them.
ImaHeadaU
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Frank, a response. A reminder, I agree with you, the UN nor the US has the right to take away guns from legitimate owners--to distinguish citizens from criminals. And an aside, I like Bob Barr, he's been called a RINO for criticizing Bush's domestic policy as liberal and criticizing the Patriot Act as government intrusion. And with that...

Quote:
 
The ultimate aim of many members of the conference on small arms is to outlaw personal ownership of guns altogether, said Georgia Republican Bob Barr

If so, and possible, that should be defended. Two ifs. Also need to check link to see what he and not WND said.
Quote:
 
At the beginning of the session, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged members to redouble efforts to curb small arms and light weapons.

That is what WND says. It does not paraphrase what Kofi Annan said which they quote:
Quote:
 
"The United Nations remains firmly committed to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade of small arms and light weapons in all its aspects." (emphasis mine)

It seems WND is somewhat hyperbolic in its expression of the facts.

As I said, regarding the emphasis, "the UN nor the US has the right to take away guns from legitimate owners." This "threat" seems to differ.

Story continues:
Quote:
 
If not for the U.S. State Department and organizations such as the National Rifle Association, "this locomotive would have had a lot more steam," Barr said.

Well? Seems we will not allow it to go further than illegal trade and ownership. The UN has made a "small step" and the US as an UN member has blocked it in its tracks.

I think Bob is right, concerned citizens should contact their representatives, for that is the only way the UN could impose control, if we as a member nation do so ourselves.

Democracy in action.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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