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Post-election: Healing Or The Great Divide?; Will we support the president?
Topic Started: Oct 26 2004, 10:04 AM (418 Views)
Peralko
Member
Voting is one week away, although we already voted early. The big question is whether we can pull the country together after this rather nasty campaign. A close campaign like in 2000, will almost surely plant a festering sore for the supporters of whoever loses, but even if that will not be the case, can we rally behind the president?
Seeing the vitriol that that is constantly thrown at President Bush, I doubt this will change if he wins the election. I do sse himtaking a harder line in Iraq--like an all-out assault on Fallujah as an example--we simply cannot afford continuing putting up with the attacks. Stabilizing Iraq will also require added U.S. troops--something that will be hard to push through with the campaign rhetoric.
On the other hand, if Kerry wins, everyone will watch carefully what he will actually do, with detractors ready to leap on him. He will have tough time with Iraq--I believe a lot of his supporters are plain anti-war--regardless of what war--and if he does not put a quick end to the Iraq war--he may lose some of that support. I do believe he will also have a tough time convincing any added world leaders to take any active role with his wrong war, wrong time, wrong place rhetoric. The other big issue is how he will pay for the expanded program he wants.
I don't know about you, but I am prepared to support either as president once he--whoever he is--is in office, we cannot afford to do otherwise. I just hope the next president will do what is best for the nation.
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teryt
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I have been considering this a lot. That is, can I supress my biased beliefs against Kerry if he wins. There has just been SOOOO much stuff that's out on him, much of which has ben unanswered. It's those unanswered things, laying in wait, that can cause real damage when some new peice of evidence comes out.

But I tell myself that this is the big American democracy experiment, and I must resolve to support whoever gets in - even if it's the person with the most liberal voting record in the Senate.

There is really no alternative.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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DanielDenali
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teryt
Oct 26 2004, 09:43 AM
I have been considering this a lot. That is, can I supress my biased beliefs against Kerry if he wins. There has just been SOOOO much stuff that's out on him, much of which has ben unanswered. It's those unanswered things, laying in wait, that can cause real damage when some new peice of evidence comes out.

But I tell myself that this is the big American democracy experiment, and I must resolve to support whoever gets in - even if it's the person with the most liberal voting record in the Senate.

There is really no alternative.

SOO much stuff? Please tell me more.
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teryt
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DanielDenali
Oct 26 2004, 05:05 PM
teryt
Oct 26 2004, 09:43 AM
I have been considering this a lot.  That is, can I supress my biased beliefs against Kerry if he wins.  There has just been SOOOO much stuff that's out on him, much of which has ben unanswered.  It's those unanswered things, laying in wait, that can cause real damage when some new peice of evidence comes out.

But I tell myself that this is the big American democracy experiment, and I must resolve to support whoever gets in - even if it's the person with the most liberal voting record in the Senate.

There is really no alternative.

SOO much stuff? Please tell me more.

Look, we all know all the ananswered things that have come out on Kerry. Now we've got an imaginary meeting with all the UN Security Council. Let's be honest, the interest is not for Kerry, but is rather against Bush . He's seen as the only alternative to Bush, so people who want Bush out will support Kerry no matter what it seems. In my opinion, a much better one would have ben someone like Gephart, who is far less controversial.

As far as half of the country is concerned (albeit different halves), both Bush & Kerry are damaged goods.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Like the vast majority of citizens in the nation I will support who ever serves as long as he serves the nation and not his or her partisan agenda and when I see that I will criticise who ever does not serve.


Incidently, I do not accept the premise we are a divided nation. That's true only for the PPPs.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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DanielDenali
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Unanswerd things? More riddles.
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Peralko
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Chris,

I'm also wondering if the internet is doing more to divide us than to unify us. While we are keeping a fairly civil debate here, I think it is too easy to be adverserial on an anonymous board. You and I know each other, as do many old Open Roads Forum members, but a lot of folks have no interaction other than these boards. Hiding behind a computer screen often make people say things they would never say in person. A quick scan of the breach will rapidly bring out examples of posters hurling obscenities and threats because they disagree on an issue. I have also noticed from AtC days to here, that nobody has been able to convince anyone that their position is the right one. You do a good job at fishing for the facts though, which very often is a big challenge in this sea of disinformation, and theories, speculation, and rumors often get passed off as facts. I do sincerely wish we can reach a higher level in the political arena, but I'm not real hopeful!
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corky52
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Peralko,

Until the morality issues fade into the background there will be no peace on the American political scene, the essential contest is between people who "believe" they have the answers and the rest who just are willing to live and let live. On economics and world position policies can be discussed, compromises reached, and deals made. The hard divisive issues are social and can't be discussed civilly. The essential question of freedom of the individual of choice separates the two extremes.
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DanielDenali
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Bravo for the sort of bald overweight short guy. I agree. :)
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Peralko
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Quote:
 
the essential contest is between people who "believe" they have the answers and the rest who just are willing to live and let live.


Corky, the difficulty that I have with that premise is that I find most in the first category, on both sides of the political fence, and very few in the latter!
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corky52
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I didn't limit the belief to one side or the other. You can "believe" many things, try talking to an anti-smoking activist.
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Peralko
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So, Corky, what is your answer to the question?
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corky52
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Relearn civility and respect for the individual.
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teryt
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corky52
Oct 26 2004, 07:04 PM
Peralko,

Until the morality issues fade into the background there will be no peace on the American political scene, the essential contest is between people who "believe" they have the answers and the rest who just are willing to live and let live.  On economics and world position policies can be discussed, compromises reached, and deals made.  The hard divisive issues are social and can't be discussed civilly.  The essential question of freedom of the individual of choice separates the two extremes.

I largely agree here. The LA Times came out with an op-ed today that says that the main issue dividing America is no longer economics, but moral culture. That's why the fellow that wrote that book on Kansas, couldn't figure out why people who had been hit economically could vote Republican.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Peralko
Oct 26 2004, 01:46 PM
Chris,

I'm also wondering if the internet is doing more to divide us than to unify us.  While we are keeping a fairly civil debate here, I think it is too easy to be adverserial on an anonymous board.  You and I know each other, as do many old Open Roads Forum members, but a lot of folks have no interaction other than these boards.  Hiding behind a computer screen often make people say things they would never say in person.  A quick scan of the breach will rapidly bring out examples of posters hurling obscenities and threats because they disagree on an issue.  I have also noticed from AtC days to here, that nobody has been able to convince anyone that their position is the right one.  You do a good job at fishing for the facts though, which very often is a big challenge in this sea of disinformation, and theories, speculation, and rumors often get passed off as facts.  I do sincerely wish we can reach a higher level in the political arena, but I'm not real hopeful!

Per, I think that can be true, certainly is so for some, no, a very few people. Same as I think the great divide in our nation exists only in the minds of a very few people--the PPPs (sorry, politicians--for power, pundits--for money, and partisans--for PP proselytes). But I think ORF and and here it is shown the vast majority can and do get along and with deep convictions discuss points of view civilly. Yes, you and I know each other--got to get together yet this season--but we first met on ORF, what was it, over three years ago: When I signed up for the first Valentine's Rally in Kerrville 2003 I was very anxious to as well as about meeting you and others. But we got together and have had great times together since--because we do not hide behind computers, do not pretend to be something we are not. We might disagree, even heatedly, yet not become personally disagreeable (to paraphrase Goldwater).

I don't really see the purpose of these forums as one of convincing others of anything--I doubt I could convince anyone to vote conservatively, that is for Badnarik, and don't even try. I think the purpose is to express our opinions, expose them to the challenge others' opinions, and generally open our minds to the world around us. The anonymity is in a way liberating, for most of us would bore our family and friends and coworkers to tears with a lot of this stuff. It beats one-way biased news and information from the alphabits. I rather see the Internet and forums and I suppose other forms like blogs as the hope of attaining something higher in the political arena. It is after all a whole new way of communicating mankind has never experienced before. I am certainly not going to, and I doubt you will, give up and let the few tear it all down. OK, pessimistically hopeful anyway.

:soap:
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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