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| What Is Your Belief In God?; Try this one - hopefully it works! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 24 2004, 01:51 PM (672 Views) | |
| PRT | Oct 26 2004, 08:01 PM Post #31 |
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Member
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Re the spectrum between faith and reason...I don't know if you would find folks in the middle or not. I would tend to think you believe/have faith or you question/reason. A poll asking three questions might be interesting - and you know my feelings on polls. LOL! 1. I believe in a Supreme Being 2. I doubt the existence of a Supreme Being 3. I don't believe in a Supreme Being I have no problem with faith and never have, and I'm a reasonably intelligent woman. "I am Who am." works for me. As to women and God - Christ called out to His Father on the cross, and I believe Christ. Although, "God is coming and She is pi$$ed." does have a nice ring to it
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| cmoehle | Oct 26 2004, 08:09 PM Post #32 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I guess my point, Pat, is most of us have no trouble with both faith and reason. Perhaps better stated my question would be where do you find yourself: O Accepting faith and rejecting reason O Accepting both faith and reason O Accepting reason and rejecting faith I think yours frames it as a question about the object of faith and/or reason while mine frames it as the process of faith and/or reason. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| PRT | Oct 26 2004, 08:56 PM Post #33 |
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Member
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I see what you're saying, Chris, and don't disagree, but what would happen if we substituted "ignoring" for "rejecting?" I don't know how faith can be rejected. Or ignored, to be honest. You either have it or you don't. Or you allow it - maybe allow can be substituted for accept. This is pretty much stream of consciousness on my part since I've been composing and changing it for a while. Interesting nonetheless. I posed my three questions to go along with the premise of this thread. Maybe a poll like yours is a good idea. (Did I say poll???) |
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| cmoehle | Oct 26 2004, 09:05 PM Post #34 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Mmmm, yes, the words are not quite right....how about Do you live by O faith and not reason O faith and reason O reason and not faith Part of the point, imo, is I'm not sure you either have it or you don't.. Expressions like he is a man of little faith or she is a woman of great faith come to mind. --And then "Man of Constant Sorrow" starts up in my head.... |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| PRT | Oct 26 2004, 09:34 PM Post #35 |
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Member
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I can't take God out of the mix, I'm afraid. If you say, I believe, you have faith. Both of these creeds don't leave room for "I sort of believe," or "I almost believe." I have to stick with you have it or you don't...but you can always get it. |
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| TexasShadow | Oct 26 2004, 10:31 PM Post #36 |
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Jane
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Doesn't it really boil down to a matter of personal perspective? Some look at the universe and life as the half full glass and others see it as half empty. And because one's overall perspective is that there is an Intelligent, benevolent Being in charge...then faith is the reasonable choice to make. But if one's perspective is that the universe is random and chaotic and heartless...then faith seems unreasonable. |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Oct 27 2004, 06:23 AM Post #37 |
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Lowell
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It seems to me that here is where faith comes in. I think many educated folks would answer that their belief is accepting of both faith and reason. I believe that those who appeared so upset about the theory that man created religion and, therefore God, would have answered that they wish to accept faith and reject reason. Again, if God exists, does it matter how he/she came into existence? I do not think so. |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 27 2004, 06:27 AM Post #38 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Only those at the binary extremes of faith-only (10) or reason-only (01) would get upset and proceed to then frame those in the middle with faith and reason (11) as having neither (00). Does it matter further how God is defined? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| bikemanb | Oct 27 2004, 07:16 AM Post #39 |
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Liberal Conservative
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The problem with belief in God isn't God, it is people overlaying their own personal view of what God is or isn't and then insisting on the "correctness" of their vision, to the point of trying to force others to believe the same. During my lifetime I have heard that Catholics are scum, Baptists are scum, Jews are scum........and so on. All stated by "God Fearing" believers of “God’s True Faith”, when we were less civilized as a race we would imprison, torture or kill others to make then see it the "correct" way. Problem is, God if there be one, is like infinity, basically impossible for the human mind to truly grasp so we attempt to define the indefinable in human terms and assign human traits to what we can't define. To assume God has any more affinity to this small insignificant planet and it's inhabitants than any of the rest of the universe is the height of arrogance by the human race. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| august-alberta | Oct 27 2004, 08:00 AM Post #40 |
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Colleen - Cold Lake Alberta
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![]() I agree with everything you've said bikeman. |
Colleen
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| Peralko | Oct 27 2004, 10:44 AM Post #41 |
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Member
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I believe faith in a supreme being is an emotional response, a driving need that seems as basic as procreation. It is found in virtually every society in one form or another, yet the proof of the existence of a supreme being is as elusive as the quest for immortality. The stories of supreme beings, such as the Bible, rely heavily on "miracles" to prove the supremacy of such a being, yet these miracles cannot be substantiated--you have to go back to "faith". Of course, many "miracles"--take the burning bush that talked to Moses as an example--could be easily be reconstructed using modern technology. I grew up in a society where we studied the Bible in school, and learned about other religions in high school. I didn't really take any of them at face value, yet I believe in Christ's teachings as a good life philosophy--up to a point. I will only turn a cheek so far before I revert to an-eye-for-an-eye! However, I get the impression that many "Christians" would be devastated if Christ--presuming he even existed (which has also not been proven)--was just a man, that everything he taught would be invalid. Combine that with the multitudes of Christian variations, each with their own version of how to be a Christian and with their own practices and ceremonies, and it leaves a fertile ground for a sceptic! While I mention Christians, similar points can also be made for every other religion. Personally, being both a cynic and a sceptic, I'll leave religion to others! |
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| TexasShadow | Oct 27 2004, 02:03 PM Post #42 |
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Jane
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I agree that it is our definitions of God and His expectations of us that cause the trouble. Each religion or philosophy claims to have a personal revelation of the character and will of the deity. Because I believe that God speaks to all humans, I look for common denominators, and it seems to boil down to what I said before...that the Creator just wants His creatures to play nice...to have respect for each other, to share and support, to exercise self discipline and personal responsibility, etc. As to Christ... I find that it doesn't matter to me if Christ was/is divine or not. He doesn't have to be divine for His teachings to have value. re the 'turning the other cheek' lesson.... I think maybe we've mis-understood that one. It seems to me that Jesus' teachings focussed on the state of the internal man...because if you are 'right' within yourself, your actions will reflect that. forgiving doesn't mean eradicating justice. forgiving means getting rid of hate and vengence in your heart/soul because these things eat away at you. I listen to people talk about getting 'closure' when a criminal is executed for killing one of their loved ones.. I'd like to ask them: does that mean that now, finally, you can begin to shuck the anger in your heart? |
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2:20 AM Jul 11