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| Wrong Choice; - lets frighten them onto our side | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2004, 04:33 AM (404 Views) | |
| bikemanb | Aug 30 2004, 04:33 AM Post #1 |
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Liberal Conservative
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As a person that until the last few years had always considered myself a Republican this sure isn't the way to win my vote. The huge deficits and the inept turn into Iraq plus the "our way or the highway" foreign policy were my turning point. Guess I see four more years as reinforcement of a marginal military policy and a terrible foreign policy. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| olstuf | Aug 30 2004, 06:49 AM Post #2 |
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Bill
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Can't say that I disagree. If you think the cleanup after the Republican convention is going to be a big job, how about cleaning up the mess they have created in the past 4 years? |
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| cmoehle | Aug 30 2004, 10:59 AM Post #3 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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It "will determine how we fight a war on terror that began right here in this city." Just not whether we do it the right way or the wrong way. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| DanielDenali | Aug 30 2004, 12:31 PM Post #4 |
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Member
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It doesn't matter because they have GOD on their side. |
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| Kate and Ed | Aug 30 2004, 06:13 PM Post #5 |
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Raleigh NC
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This is not my line but I like it. Terrorism anywhere is a threat to freedom everywhere. Go after it where it thrives so the USA never has to see another 9/11. We have no choice IMO. |
of Kate and Ed ![]() "Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country." Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the US | |
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| cmoehle | Aug 30 2004, 07:00 PM Post #6 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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It was thriving in Afgahnistan. It wasn't thriving in Iraq. It eminates from Saudi Arabia, and earlier Egypt. It has its stronghold now in border regions of Pakistan, where like UBL hides. " It doesn't matter because they have GOD on their side." So now as I'm leavin' I'm weary as Hell The confusion I'm feelin' Ain't no tongue can tell The words fill my head And fall to the floor If God's on our side He'll stop the next war. --Bob Dylan, "With God on Our Side" |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| MDPD6320 | Aug 30 2004, 07:31 PM Post #7 |
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
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I would like to know exactly what the perception is when you say the Iraq war has been "inept" and that there are huge deficits. The deficits are not huge when compared to GNP, and while I keep reading that we are in a quagmire, that the war has not been handled well, or there is no exit strategy, no explanation of what should have been done has been forthcoming. If anyone has a view of what could have or should have been done aside from hapless nonsense like “we should have had the French help”, I would be enlightened. I would like to hear from all the armchair generals, summer soldiers, and all seeing, all knowing armchair politicians as to what their actions would have been. Frank |
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" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
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| corky52 | Aug 30 2004, 07:41 PM Post #8 |
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Member
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MDPD6320, What should we have done? Very simple, provided the muscle to force Saddam to allow the inspections, determined he didn't have WMDs and gone home leaving him as an effective blocking agent between Iran and Saudi Arabia. |
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| MDPD6320 | Aug 30 2004, 07:51 PM Post #9 |
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
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What exactly do you mean by "provide the muscle" He already thumbed his nose at 19 "resolutions" by the hapless U.N. What do you do? Threaten him with another resolution. Absent the force of arms nothing happens to to force him to do anything. The "inspectors" all agreed he had prohibited weapons. Be a little more specific. Frank |
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" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
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| cmoehle | Aug 30 2004, 07:51 PM Post #10 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Frank, what kind of answer do you expect when you poison the well? Inept? Have you taken the time to listen to Wolfowitz in hearing after hearing not having a clue how much has been spent and how many lives lost. Deputy Secy of Defense. Not enough funding requested, not enough troop, not enough good enough equipment. Inept? Needless, irrelevant to the Terror War. Now that it becomes so by our being there, Bush speaks to leaving same as Kerry. Deficits funded by borrowing heavily from foreign investors against a future Medicare and Social Security cannot bear. And what is the greatest domestic spending our nation has ever seen funding? The greatest growth of liberal government our nation has ever seen. Kerry could do worse. But I stray from the "war." So where was I? Oh, yeah, the need for planning was spelled out quite clearly enough in the Powell Doctrine, abandoned for the Bush Doctrine, written by none other than the great strategic planner, Wolfowitz. No doubt Kerry would also bring in elitist intellectuals to run his war. And, finally, the tradeoffs needed to build a stronger coalition would have served us well, not only in Iraq, but in that other war, the Terror War, where international cooperation is the order of the day. I will get specific as you get specific about what Bush did right. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| bikemanb | Aug 30 2004, 07:59 PM Post #11 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Frank, That a plan for winning the peace was totally missing is hard to miss, it appears that the current administration assumed the people of Iraq were going to throw down rose petals, the military knew otherwise and if you will go back and research some of the "chatter" being leak by the military before the invasion, they were not thrilled about the low level of manpower and the lack of an clear exit strategy. Given that I have a avid interest in history and am somewhat familiar with the history of the "nation" of Iraq, I was predicting the current aftermath on the old ATC long before the invasion ever started. As for the Second Gulf War being necessary: When the inspectors that we forced in started coming up empty, ie NO WMD, didn't you start to wonder? When you hear such lame excuses for the inspectors not finding anything such as we could not share that intell with them because it would expose our "source(s)", didn't you wonder? When high level Air Force Brass were leaking to Newsweek that the CIA was not providing them with "good" WMD targeting info, didn't you start to wonder. The war in Iraq was a terrible blunder that diverted the War on Terror from where it should have been focused and created a large rift in the world's body politic that detracts from the War on Terror, which other than Afgahanistan is more of a "Spy vs. Spy" and special ops war, not main battle tanks and troop formations. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| corky52 | Aug 30 2004, 08:02 PM Post #12 |
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Member
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MDPD6320, As I recall the inspectors were already in country and doing their job, we had put forces in a position to make sure they were allowed to do their job. Wining the point wasn't enough for GWB and crew, they had to pull the trigger and in the process drag us in to a quagmire the depths of which I'm sure you have no clue about. When your grandchildren are fighting the Iranians on a full NBC battlefield to protect the Saudis then maybe you will begin to understand. |
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| TrampleLad | Aug 31 2004, 09:54 AM Post #13 |
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Steve
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To me it was similar to the scene from Braveheart where Mel Gibson rode out to meet with the English and demanded things that noway could be given or agreed to, with the response, "I'm going to pick a fight". |
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| irongoat | Aug 31 2004, 07:54 PM Post #14 |
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Member
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For this election I believe common sense and reason will prevail. I have faith in the American people to sort out the rhetoric and see through the veil and validate the best leader for our great country. There are many reasons I am voting for GWB. I consider W to be the best fit for the job of protecting us as we face these times of peril. I also support his position on time honored personal relationships. I do not believe Kerry can win with in the heartland which tends to be a little more patriotic and are rejecting Kerry over the Viet Nam issue. If Kerry wins I will honor that victory and for the good of the country support him in moving the country forward. Irongoat (AKA Colt_45 at The Fire)
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| "In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson | |
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| cmoehle | Sep 1 2004, 05:03 AM Post #15 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Sorry to disagree, irongoat, common sense and reason have little to do with this or any election I can recall. I have less faith and more hope the American people will see through the rhetoric of both major parties some day. That the heartland is somehow more patriotic and rejecting Kerry over the Vietnam non-issue is baloney. I am sure just as you find good reasons to vote for Bush an equal number find good reasons to vote for Kerry. All of them related to patriotism and protection and striving for a better life and world. --Well, that's the rhetoric. In reality both stand for liberal big government whether it's tax and spend or borrow and spend, Bush perhaps even more so with his support for government intrusion into personal lives. I prefer to vote conservative. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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2:25 AM Jul 11