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Theory; - life is tough in the center
Topic Started: Aug 27 2004, 05:22 AM (452 Views)
bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
I have developed a theory that people in the center right, center and center left are more offensive and generate more anger in those on the extremes than their opposite.

Reason, vs. platitudes and slogans......what could those apostates be thinking.
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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corky52
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Both extremes are dogmatic and rule/code bound and react to the other in predictable ways. Questioning the righteous always brings more anger than dogmatic opposition which is seen as merely a wrong set of beliefs. It's easier to understand believing wrongly than to understand not believing at all, not much chance to convert a questioning mind.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Think most people are in the centre--neither embracing ideology from the left or the right.

Do you have a theory as to why when there is an explosion of information available, that there is less tolerance?

I know when I grew up it was a richer world. The range of people in my neighbourhood was extremely varied. Seems now people isolate themselves and have become much more judgmental about those who are not in their immediate circle?

Sylvia

On edit: Just look at the design of modern houses--parents have suites away from their children. Grandparents seldom live with children. I was raised by my Grandmother--she was a fountain of knowledge and all of it firsthand. Where does the anger come from? Why does everyone want to be like everyone else? Society needs diversification, not sameness.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Problem is that because politics has devolved to values-based stances on social issues the old metaphors of right and left and center don't work well anymore. Extremists might, radicals might. For example, the pro-lifer is just as extreme and radical as the pro-choicer.

Still people who offer compromises and trade offs to those extremes and radical views are often scorned. People in the center confound the dichotomous views of extremists and radicals--either with us or against us types. People in the center upset extremists' strawmen.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
Interesting thoughts Sylvia, could it be that just the opposite is happening? I was brought up in close contact with grandparents, aunts, uncles and family friends. We matured with their values. Culture was less diverse. Now children are shuttled off to “day care” to be brought up by God knows who, and acquire the values of others. Twelve years later parents look at their children and say, “who’s he”? I don’t believe that diversity for its own sake is a good thing.
Another reason for society’s values is the lack of thought subjects for school kids. They are pumped full of cream puff courses, (much of it the subjective views of their instructors) and nowhere to be found are logic, philosophy, Latin and Greek.
Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Frank,

Culture was less diverse?

Not in my neighbourhood it wasn't less diverse--quite the contrary. There was ample room for individuality and that was accomplished with great frequency.

The family nucleus wasn't small--it included aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents. Neighbours were also part of the mix and they came in all sizes, beliefs, habits, abilities, and states of physical/emotional health.

Everyone fitted together and none thought the other superior or inferior -- they were just people trying to do the best they could with what they had. They all knew each other, because families tended to stay in one house from birth 'til marriage.

Many of the people that formed that rich mix of people would not be accepted by modern standards.

Today's children are segregated from differences. Subdivisions of people congregate together that are very similar. Oh, you might find the odd alcoholic among them, but you'd find them in all the different layers of society.

Children go to schools that aren't very far away from the home, which tends to make them a homogeneous group rather than a group who have numerous members who are distinct from one another.

Isn't it ironic that when mobility becomes wide spread and occurs with more frequency that there is less intermingling among the wider population?

I'm not at all convinced that the curriculum at school is easier now, but it has changed and IMHO, not for the better. Teachers are better trained, but they are given less authority with their students and what is to be taught. I would agree that there is a concentration away from the tenants of classical education -- good books aren't found in the schools or in the homes. There is much more concentration on individualizing the learning 'experience'. Yes, I would totally agree that there needs to be a return to logic, comprehension, philosophy and the wonderful world of the arts where understanding is the goal.

Does the anger come from less tolerance about individual differences, because there wasn't much of it there when the blend of people was abundant?

Sylvia
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
I guess we matured in a different climate. In my youth (so long gone) our neighborhood was more homogenous than the one I live in now. We were a neighborhood of mostly Italian families, Catholic, and many first generation. The adults spoke Italian and diversity was the difference in dialect. There were a few other nationalities mixed in but not many. No black families, no Hispanic families. The culture was rich, and tradition abounded. You didn’t get your foot too far off the bag, because everyone knew who you were and where you lived. The old men all made wine at the same time each year and every kid on the block had a home made scooter constructed from an old a grape stained fruit box.

Today we live in a neighborhood with many, races, ethnicities and professions represented. People don’t speak to one another. Neighbors grunt a begrudged “hello”, and send you a letter if you don’t cut the grass before it gets too high. We are segregated by diversity. Yes, increased mobility in itself hasn’t increased diversity, because all of the diversity encountered due to increased mobility can not overcome the desire for people to identify with those that hold the same values, and cultural background.
I’m not sure that we aren’t saying a similar thing from different perspectives.
I grew up in New York where did you?

Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Mine was London, Ontario--a smallish city of 50,000. It is now more than 300,000. Yep, weather is a factor, but our backgrounds do sound very similar? I dunno, seems like years ago, despite differences it was a kinder, gentler society.

The very small town we now live in is less then 1,000 people, but I now know far fewer people in the smaller community than I did in the larger one. Don't even know the names of the neighbours across the street. Strikes me that is very sad!

Sylvia
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
Quote:
 
seems like years ago, despite differences it was a kinder, gentler society.


Was it really, Sylley?

I grew up in Winnipeg, a city of about 400,000 at the time. It was divided into roughly equal numbers of French Canadians, Jews, Ukrainians, and Scots. While there was no violence, or even a hint, the four groups lived in separate parts of the city, and went to different types of jobs, etc.

My grandmother was of English background, of which she was unjustifiably proud, in my opinion, as she was actually born in Manitoba. She was so overtly racist she opposed my mother marrying my father for several years, as he was a Scotsman, of all things!

She was a devout Methodist, and totally convinced the bible stated that other races were inferior.

My mother, who was much more tolerant, still made statements about the quality and intelligence of certain other races that would make 99% of people gag today.

Bad things happened, but they were swept under the table and never mentioned in polite company... I was well into my teens before I found out that the nice Jewish couple that had lived beside us for a couple of years had been quietly "frozen out" of the neighbourhood. My mother said, "They were very nice people, y'know, and heavens, we're not Nazis or anything, but they just didn't fit..."

When I told that last story to my sons, they were totally befuddled. They didn't even understand what happened or why - the only stories like it were all ancient history to them, and couldn't possibly apply to anyone they knew...

We're much more aware of such things now.. Nowhere near perfect, but gradually moving in the right direction, I think
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Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Ypu all up north hear of this guy?

Paul Harvey, "In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these."
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
In the interest of clarification, I didn’t mean weather, when I said climate. I should have said social environment. Also I didn’t mean we have similar backgrounds, as it is obvious we don’t. What I meant was that we may have similar feelings in regard to a social phenomena and we are just looking at the same thing from different viewpoints. I couldn’t expect that you would have had experience dealing with a multiracial, multiethnic urban experience living in a small town. The ingredients just aren’t there.

I’m sorry if you read “anger” into my opinion, it’s not anger. I for 30 years was called into various racial and ethnic neighborhoods to act as enforcer of law, arbitrator of family disagreements, protector of the incapable, and scapegoat for the influential. I’ve seen all the diversity one could ask to see. I have found that in general people want to be with others who share their values, culture, and language.

Diversity may be something that is an experience to understand and appreciate others when you have lived in a small town or village, quite another when you have lived in a large urban environment where diversity abounds and one longs to be re-united with one’ own value system.

Frank
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
The anger part was the topic of this thread and I had put forth my ideas in relation to it.

Agree that the similarity came from feelings not actual experiences because there were great differences in the size of the communities of our childhoods. People are people whether they live in small ones or large ones--that doesn't change.

And it is true that many things were swept under the table like illegitimacy. But there has been no gigantic improvement in many of those issues, despite the technology that addresses them. There are still social issues that affect a great many people.

The more we change, the more we stay the same comes to mind? Just had a yearning to touch base with my roots--it's deeply ingrained. Nostalgia for them hasn't robbed me of my ability to see life as it is now. My family will always be at my core--the ability to be fair came from there.

Sylvia

Chris, I do listen to Paul Harvey.
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
Paul Harvey runs on one of our local AM radio stations every day.

We even have running water up here, Chris..... ;) :D ;)


"And now you know the rest of the story" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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"Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
<_< Pentax - Don't tell him where we keep the dogsleds... <_< :ph43r: <_<
Posted Image My Favourite Campsite
Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Haven't listened to Paul Harvey in 20 years! He still kickin'?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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