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Cheney Differs With Same Sex Marriage Policy; Is this the end of Bush/Cheney?
Topic Started: Aug 25 2004, 06:10 AM (357 Views)
corky52
Member
Chris,
Marriage is only a word, it's not worth the fractures it's causing. I'll take the same legal rights call xyzzy and accorded to all citizens regardless of sexual orientation and let the religious have the word marriage. Smallness over a group of sounds isn't in my nature, there are more important things to worry about.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
You really think it's just the word for some? That old thread showed what can happen when you disagree with some people's personal values.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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corky52
Member
Chris,
We'd sure find out who stood where after giving the word back to the religious wouldn't we? I think that the true nature of this discussion would would then make it's self evident.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Social mores and norms of our nation will determine the matter. I guess I prefer that historic and system solution to any unconstrained liberal one.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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corky52
Member
Chris,
Translation please!
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TexasShadow
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Jane
re marriage precedes religion....
well, chris, you are right to remind me of that.
so maybe the answer is the churches need to change their wording and have a 'blessing' for marriages...or not..... because basically, that's what the churches do....bless the marriage.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Corky, social mores and norms are determined historically, systemically (mispelled as system above). They are as absolute as it gets, slow to change. They are determined in everything we do from simple interactions to the making of laws. This notion that marriage is somehow sacred and special only for some in no way represents a consensus, in fact trends show the population trending the opposite direction. The notion is thus founded on individual values, which everyone has a right to, unarguably, but for individuals to impose their values on others is the epitome of the unconstrained vision*. And to depend on centralized government to impose it the epitome of liberalism (modern sense).

*"whether human nature is inherently imperfect and hasn't essentially changed throughout history (the "constrained vision"), or whether human nature can be improved through education, programs, and spending (the "unconstrained vision"...)" from a review of Sowell's A Conflict of Visions.



Jane, that I believe is more accurate, the various churches bless marriage in religious ceremonies. No one is attacking or taking away from that private matter, that is up to the churches.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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corky52
Member
Chris,
To many rules and far too many long noses!
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olstuf
Bill
Back to the question. Is this difference of opinion of jurisdiction over the issue the break that will allow Bush to drop the anchor of Cheney or is Cheney taking this lifeboat early because of a leaky ship? You folks are as bad as Clinton defining a word. His was is, your's is marriage. Marriage is a word. Other cultures call the union something different. Now y'all think about it and I will check in the morning of the consensus. Old people need sleep.
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campingken
Member
I am NOT a Cheney fan but he showed class when he answered the question about his daughter.

Ken
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
olstuf, the Republicans need Cheney to retain any semblance of conservstism. In fact, while I listen to his words as sincere and heartfelt, this almost seems planned as a smokescreen for the announcement yesterday that the Republican Platform Endorses Ban on Gay Marriage
Quote:
 
The platform's "strong" support for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages came one day after Vice President Dick Cheney, who has a lesbian daughter, broke with the president on the issue. Cheney said the matter should be left to individual states.

Republican gay and abortion rights activists said the platform called into question the motives for featuring prominent moderate Republicans in prime speaking roles next week.

"This was a chance to unite the party and demonstrate that the GOP's inclusiveness doesn't end with the prime time speaking lineup," said Ann Stone, chairwoman of Republicans for Choice. "It was their chance to show George Bush as a uniter not a divider, but clearly they have failed." ...

Bush has walked a fine line in convention planning, trying to woo undecided swing voters by presenting a moderate face of the party in prime time without alienating his conservative base supporters.

Note how just as "liberal" has been distorted by modern US politics, so has "conservative".
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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olstuf
Bill
I would have liked it better if Cheney, in his statement on gay marriage, would have expanded his statement to say it is nobody's business whether his daughter or anyone else was gay. I'm pretty sure in my own mind that he probably feels this way but cannot say it because of his position in politics. It is not information that I need to know about someone. Despite the charge that there are religious objections to homosexual "marriages", I believe the biggest fear is the cost of benefits and the expansion of marital rights if it is recognized. Some states have included the cohabitation of same sex couples in some of these benefits but others, using the religious arguement, have not. Give the word marriage to the churches, call the union another name for legal purposes but to not recognize such a large faction of our population because of their sexuality is just plain wrong in my opinion.
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