Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Abu Ghraib; Who set the tone for what went on?
Topic Started: Aug 24 2004, 11:23 AM (286 Views)
Gershon Ben Daniel
TiogaRV
Hi Everybody!

Responsibility for Abu Gharaib is working its way up ladder. The big question is, will the ladder finally reach those really responsible?

Who set the tone for how prisoners should be treated at Abu Gharaib? Who set the tone how prisoners should be treated at Guantanamo Bay? Who conceived of setting our Constitutional amendment protections aside, in order to protect us from terrorism? Who thought up the idea of "The Patriot Act" and conceived such a devious label for this legislation?
The Adventures of Tioga and George
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pentax
Member Avatar
Kamloops - BC Interior
edited
Posted Image
(thumbnail)

Posted Image

"Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
olstuf
Bill
Probably not get to those who are reposible as there are lots of layers to protect them. They didn't get to be in their positions without some CYA. As usual, the grunts get the short end of the stick.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BuddyKidd
Member Avatar
Buddy Kidd - Oklahoma City
Quote: Who thought up the idea of "The Patriot Act"

I believe the idea originally came from the Democrats and was taken over by the Republicans.
Buddy & Jenna Kidd
Sophie
Itasca Horizon 36LD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TexasShadow
Member Avatar
Jane
Quote:
 
I believe the idea originally came from the Democrats and was taken over by the Republicans.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bikemanb
Member Avatar
Liberal Conservative
Quote:
 
I believe the idea originally came from the Democrats and was taken over by the Republicans.


Which probably means that what we have are Demicans and Republicrats. Dancing around some of the phony culture war issues to distract us all from how alike and how ineffective they both are.
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
The Patriot Act is an extension of wire tapping laws that go back to Hoover's time in the FBI, iirc. Every administration has "enhanced" them. Ironically, when Clinton "enhanced" them the Reps, especially Delay, where howling (exaggeration) in the aisle.


But to the point, Gershon, on the way home I heard it said that the blame goes as far as Washington and the fairly high up in the Pentagon, but not as a cause for the abuses but for not acting on it soon enough. Back at that time at Guantanimo the military to prisoner ratio was 1 to 1, at Abu Ghraib 1 to 75, and that in what can only be described as a war zone. The report also stated that the abuses occured only on the night, not the day shift. And also that the abuses were not against suspected terrorist/unsurgents but against common criminals.

At least that's what I remember hearing.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gershon Ben Daniel
TiogaRV
Hi Chris,

Isn't President Bush himself responsible for the Guantanamo abuse? Is it not a very small leap from Guantanamo, to Abu Gharaib?

The Adventures of Tioga and George
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Guantanamo abuse? None I know of. Gitmo because of the 1 to 1 ratio is held to be the standard the milary seeks to establish.

The more striking difference is Gitmo holds possible terrorists while those at Abu who were abused have nothing apparently to do with terrorism. None of them from what I understand was ever interrogated. If so, the whole notion of using the abuse to break them down is bogus.

Yes, ultimately, Bush as CINC is responsible. But I believe he has acted responsibly in persuing investigations and prosecutions.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gershon Ben Daniel
TiogaRV
Today's news putting the Abu Ghraib blame on Rumsfeld reminds me of the Watergate/Nixon investigation. Slowly, so slowly, the responsibility drifts ever upwards. Lower echelon people are tiring of taking the blame alone! Do you blame them?

When will "The Man" step up and admit that he set the tone for Abu Ghraib?
The Adventures of Tioga and George
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
roscoe
Member
You mean like " The buck stops here "
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
corky52
Member
Second report that just came out adds even more questions and highlights some even worse things. Report also shows that there were eight more hidden prisoners that were CIA transfers. More and more interesting.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FBrown
Member
I heard recently that the Captain of the USS Kennedy, an aircraft carrier, had been relieved of command because that ship ran over and sank a small boat. In the US Navy the Captain of the ship is always responsible for what goes on regarding his ship. He can be asleep but he is still responsible. There is no doubt where the buck stops there. So, if George W. Bush is Commander in Chief, where does the buck stop regarding the prisoner abuse scandal? As far as I am concerned, either he is in charge or he is not. If not, move on George!! However, he is not remotely known for admitting even the possibility of a mistake on his part, so he will more than likely sit on his thumbs and hope the scandal blows over without splashing anything on his pantlegs.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
roscoe
Member
It would be strange if the people We went to help were abused by us and caused Mr. Bush to lose his re-election bid.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
corky52
Member
I doubt the reports will bother many of GWB's supporters, it's not like the prisoners were white Christian Americans or anything.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »
Add Reply