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| Abu Ghraib; Who set the tone for what went on? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 24 2004, 11:23 AM (288 Views) | |
| Gershon Ben Daniel | Aug 24 2004, 11:23 AM Post #1 |
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TiogaRV
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Hi Everybody! Responsibility for Abu Gharaib is working its way up ladder. The big question is, will the ladder finally reach those really responsible? Who set the tone for how prisoners should be treated at Abu Gharaib? Who set the tone how prisoners should be treated at Guantanamo Bay? Who conceived of setting our Constitutional amendment protections aside, in order to protect us from terrorism? Who thought up the idea of "The Patriot Act" and conceived such a devious label for this legislation? |
| The Adventures of Tioga and George | |
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| pentax | Aug 24 2004, 12:30 PM Post #2 |
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Kamloops - BC Interior
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![]() (thumbnail) ![]() "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!" | |
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| olstuf | Aug 24 2004, 01:52 PM Post #3 |
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Bill
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Probably not get to those who are reposible as there are lots of layers to protect them. They didn't get to be in their positions without some CYA. As usual, the grunts get the short end of the stick. |
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| BuddyKidd | Aug 24 2004, 02:09 PM Post #4 |
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Buddy Kidd - Oklahoma City
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Quote: Who thought up the idea of "The Patriot Act" I believe the idea originally came from the Democrats and was taken over by the Republicans. |
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Buddy & Jenna Kidd Sophie Itasca Horizon 36LD | |
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| TexasShadow | Aug 24 2004, 02:31 PM Post #5 |
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Jane
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| bikemanb | Aug 24 2004, 03:21 PM Post #6 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Which probably means that what we have are Demicans and Republicrats. Dancing around some of the phony culture war issues to distract us all from how alike and how ineffective they both are. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| cmoehle | Aug 24 2004, 04:30 PM Post #7 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The Patriot Act is an extension of wire tapping laws that go back to Hoover's time in the FBI, iirc. Every administration has "enhanced" them. Ironically, when Clinton "enhanced" them the Reps, especially Delay, where howling (exaggeration) in the aisle. But to the point, Gershon, on the way home I heard it said that the blame goes as far as Washington and the fairly high up in the Pentagon, but not as a cause for the abuses but for not acting on it soon enough. Back at that time at Guantanimo the military to prisoner ratio was 1 to 1, at Abu Ghraib 1 to 75, and that in what can only be described as a war zone. The report also stated that the abuses occured only on the night, not the day shift. And also that the abuses were not against suspected terrorist/unsurgents but against common criminals. At least that's what I remember hearing. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Gershon Ben Daniel | Aug 25 2004, 12:17 AM Post #8 |
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TiogaRV
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Hi Chris, Isn't President Bush himself responsible for the Guantanamo abuse? Is it not a very small leap from Guantanamo, to Abu Gharaib? |
| The Adventures of Tioga and George | |
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| cmoehle | Aug 25 2004, 05:42 AM Post #9 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Guantanamo abuse? None I know of. Gitmo because of the 1 to 1 ratio is held to be the standard the milary seeks to establish. The more striking difference is Gitmo holds possible terrorists while those at Abu who were abused have nothing apparently to do with terrorism. None of them from what I understand was ever interrogated. If so, the whole notion of using the abuse to break them down is bogus. Yes, ultimately, Bush as CINC is responsible. But I believe he has acted responsibly in persuing investigations and prosecutions. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Gershon Ben Daniel | Aug 25 2004, 11:50 AM Post #10 |
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TiogaRV
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Today's news putting the Abu Ghraib blame on Rumsfeld reminds me of the Watergate/Nixon investigation. Slowly, so slowly, the responsibility drifts ever upwards. Lower echelon people are tiring of taking the blame alone! Do you blame them? When will "The Man" step up and admit that he set the tone for Abu Ghraib? |
| The Adventures of Tioga and George | |
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| roscoe | Aug 25 2004, 01:28 PM Post #11 |
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Member
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You mean like " The buck stops here " |
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| corky52 | Aug 25 2004, 01:34 PM Post #12 |
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Member
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Second report that just came out adds even more questions and highlights some even worse things. Report also shows that there were eight more hidden prisoners that were CIA transfers. More and more interesting. |
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| FBrown | Aug 29 2004, 10:23 PM Post #13 |
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Member
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I heard recently that the Captain of the USS Kennedy, an aircraft carrier, had been relieved of command because that ship ran over and sank a small boat. In the US Navy the Captain of the ship is always responsible for what goes on regarding his ship. He can be asleep but he is still responsible. There is no doubt where the buck stops there. So, if George W. Bush is Commander in Chief, where does the buck stop regarding the prisoner abuse scandal? As far as I am concerned, either he is in charge or he is not. If not, move on George!! However, he is not remotely known for admitting even the possibility of a mistake on his part, so he will more than likely sit on his thumbs and hope the scandal blows over without splashing anything on his pantlegs. |
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| roscoe | Aug 29 2004, 10:54 PM Post #14 |
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Member
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It would be strange if the people We went to help were abused by us and caused Mr. Bush to lose his re-election bid. |
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| corky52 | Aug 29 2004, 11:16 PM Post #15 |
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Member
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I doubt the reports will bother many of GWB's supporters, it's not like the prisoners were white Christian Americans or anything. |
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2:25 AM Jul 11