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| Amendment Xvi; I want it repealed | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 21 2004, 11:55 AM (723 Views) | |
| MDPD6320 | Aug 23 2004, 03:37 PM Post #46 |
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
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Brewster, I did some checking and tried to determine why the difficulty in administration of the Canadian Sales Tax. I am told that the Canadian tax is levied throughout the manufacturing process. i.e. If a person were building cars he would pay sales taxes on each component he purchased, whereas, the sales tax we speak of is an end user one-time tax. The purchaser of the finished product would pay the tax, not the producer. Each state already (except four) has collection established. It would cost very little to administer this type tax. Frank |
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" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Aug 23 2004, 04:02 PM Post #47 |
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Lowell
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Frank, I think you just opened the door to the kind of mess that Brewster describes. If the tax is only on "consumer" goods, that precludes many who consume products. I just wonder if my business is home mailing, are envelopes therefore exempt from sales tax for me but not for you? Talk about opening the door to special interest lobbying. Just when does an agricultural product become a consumer item? At the first sale? At the sale to the home owner, even if no processing has been done? Is animal feed a consumer good? if fed to livestock? If fed to pets? I think you can see where I'm going with this. |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Aug 23 2004, 04:04 PM Post #48 |
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Lowell
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Frank, Since the benefits to the worker of FICA payments is usually considered as part of the "benefit package" for employees, would employers under your system simply add that amount to the wages of their employees or are you actually proposing a reduction in employee benefits? |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| brewster | Aug 23 2004, 04:48 PM Post #49 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Frank, the Canadian system was originally set up to replace the old Manufacturers tax, and to avoid the mess the Brits have. Everyone pays for everything they buy - Otherwise, does General Motors pay for pencils? If not, why not? It could get really ugly. If General Motors buys steel to make a car - that shouldn't be taxed, right? What if GM buys steel to build themselves a building? Then the manufacturers and wholesalers keep track of everything they resell - including that pencil, if they resell it as part of some sort of promotion. They can then claim that back, or rather keep the equivalent tax on what they sell to someone else - a little easier than actually swapping money around a dozen times. In theory, only the final end user pays, just as you say. As long as you can prove you're not an end user, you can avoid a lot of tax. That's where the lawyers make their money. Then there's the people who try to beat the system by using cash only - no record, no tax. The legal term is "Transaction Underreporting" - about 30% of all transactions in Canada, I heard in one estimate. Good Luck. |
My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| cmoehle | Aug 23 2004, 05:22 PM Post #50 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I'm beginning to understand the problem with what do you collect. Seems to be the same problem now, what income, what earnings do you collect on? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| passinthru | Aug 23 2004, 05:42 PM Post #51 |
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John - Gainesville, FL
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Here in Florida, the sales tax is basically as Frank describes it. On our business, copying, we don't pay tax on paper or toner, but we combines them into 'prints' and charge tax on the prints unless they are being sold to someone else in their normal course of business. Anything we consume in the business, such as paper towels or pens, we pay tax on, including the machinery. It's a fairly easy system to administer. If you buy for resale, or will combine what you buy to make something for resale, it isn't taxable to you. We are responsible for showing what we buy tax-free is being incorporated into a product that we do sell. We are responsible for having on record, annually, a tax exempt card for anyone to whom we sell and don't charge tax. If we sell to someone and don't charge tax, even though it should have been charged, we are not liable if we have that card, they become liable. |
| Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money... | |
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| MDPD6320 | Aug 23 2004, 06:35 PM Post #52 |
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida
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I fail to see what is confusing. If you are paying sales tax on an item now, you will be paying federal sales tax on the same item if this is adapted. No more no less. I don't know what is difficult to understand about end-user. If GM buys steel and builds a car they don't pay sales tax. They don't now and won't under the federal plan. If they buy steel and build a building they will pay as they do now. Who will see to it? The same people that currently are doing a pretty good job in each state. FICA I never viewed it as an employer given benefit, as it is a tax mandated by the government, and not something freely given or bargained. Since the sales tax revenue will replace FICA the employee will still retain the same "benefit ", and the money the employer paid will remain the employer’s to do as he sees fit. As far as end user, who is and who isn't, the state tax people have had years of experience in deciding who must pay taxes. You can read into anything circumstances that theoretically throw a wrench into the workings, but this initiative has been around for a while, introduced by a true grassroots movement, and supported by many from both sides of the aisle. Many Congressmen and Senators from all over the country have signed on as co-sponsors. This is not an off the cuff idea that is full of miscalculations. It has been worked and reworked to the point of being ready for national scrutiny. Frank |
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" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
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| bikemanb | Aug 23 2004, 08:24 PM Post #53 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Two things are certain in life....... Rest assured whatever system were to replace the current one would be gamed by the politicians and crooks just like the current one. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| brewster | Aug 23 2004, 08:27 PM Post #54 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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You're a clever man, Bill.
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My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| bikemanb | Aug 23 2004, 08:56 PM Post #55 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Naw, not clever just cynical. <_< |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| cmoehle | Aug 23 2004, 09:02 PM Post #56 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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"Rest assured whatever system were to replace the current one" Slightly more cynical: Replace is the wrong word. Think enhance, add, increase, augment, |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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