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Recycling---how Far Should We Go With It?
Topic Started: Aug 21 2004, 10:23 AM (251 Views)
olstuf
Bill
I doubt if there are any on this forum who are against recycling. Much of what we use today is made of recyclyed materials. The engine in your auto or RV is made of scrap iron etc. About 70% of all lead used (batteries etc) is recycled. Copper piping in your house is composed of a high percentage of recycled copper. Possibly the carpet in your RV is made from recycled milk jugs. Everyday items, computers and most electonics are recycled. Now a bit farther. Many of us have either donated blood or received blood. Again recycling. Organ transplants are a form of recycling. There are athletes that have had ligament and tendon transplants to continue their career. How far do we go with this? Many are opposed to stem cell research because of the use of a fetus and it's possiblity of spreading to cloning and the harvesting of organs. How do think you would react if it would save your life or one of your loved ones? After all it can be interpeted as a form of recycling. Do we cease science at some point?
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TexasShadow
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Jane
re recycling......
I'm all for recycling just about everything, including donating one's body parts.
But cloning is a little different.
Cloning isn't exactly recycling.
If we can clone pieces of human flesh (hearts, lungs, livers, kidneys, etc) that seems to be ok....just take some dna from me and grow me a new heart.
But cloning a whole person from my dna for the sole purpose of providing me with a living, spare-parts, creature...is a horrendous idea to me.

re the stem cell research....I don't understand why fetuses are needed when there are a zillion placentas and umbilical cords available.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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olstuf
Bill
But isn't that a continuation of the process? It is going to happen if only outside our country. I realize this is a deep moral question and until or if I have to make the decision, I'm not sure what I would do. Would you refuse the opportunity to save yourself or a loved one if the part or process came from the use of cloned or harvested parts? Undoubtedly this isn't going to happen in my lifetime but probably will to some degree within another generation so we are making decisions that will affect those succeding us. Is that fair to them to stop all the experimentation? I would imagine those before us had reservations about some of the procedures that we take for granted now. We have selective breeding now in animals and most of us are eating genetically engineered food. Do we have the "right" to refuse help for those who's health could benefit from such experimentation? Just a thought.
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TexasShadow
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Jane
well olstuf
I can only say that I can't see myself ever being willing to harvest organs from a living human being to save my own life or even my child's... I mean, what makes my life more important than his/her's?
you're right, this is a very sticky issue.
the research argument that 'they' are doing it, so why don't we do it, too doesn't carry much weight with me.
there are a lot of 'theys' out there doing things I don't think is right for me to do. :(
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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olstuf
Bill
You must understand I am playing "Devils advocate" with this issue as it will probably not happen in my lifetime even if it farther along than we realize. My concern is when or how does one stop the advancement of the sciences. Certainly there have been treatments for the very rich that were not available to the rest of the world however successful they may have been. Do we stop trying to find "cures" for the illnesses of the world? Do we, in this "free" country limit our people from competing with others who have different views of this issue? Can you force your views on the rest of the people if they believe it is okay? Not you personally now. I certainly do not question nor would want to belittle your faith and beliefs but we are a very small part of this world. Are we to withdraw from the pursuit of better health? Haven't humans sought longer life forever? Isn't this an extension of that effort? This is going to be a big and contentious issue before very long.

(Thought I better use human rather than man as I could get in trouble of being sexist!)
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karmasasha
Unregistered

Olstuf, I read your post with interest but will not contribute to this thread. My reason...Registered Nurses are discouraged from giving opinion on matters such as this, abortion, "pulling the plug",etc.

This is because of possible legal repercussions at some date in time.
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olstuf
Bill
As I stated earlier, I am only interested in what most people think about it. Morally, it can be very difficult to deal with and I understand that. I just believe it will happen and maybe sooner than we think. Personally, I doubt very much if I would agree to have a transplanted organ from any source and at my age it is not a good option. I am rapidly approaching what many decree is too old. However there are those who would do most anything to prolong their life or to appear to be young. Just look at the advertising. Take a pill and you can be 18 again. Of course, you may die from the side effects. Those who deal with illnesses and death on a daily basis may have much different ideas on the issue than others.
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Banandangees
Member
olstuf
Aug 21 2004, 07:19 PM
But isn't that a continuation of the process?  It is going to happen if only outside our country.

I'm with Jane on this one. I realize that to save a loved one (or my own selfish self) I might be inclinded to change my mind about the cloning thing.

But, as I write this, I am listening to Rush (heaven forbid) radio program in the background and he is talking with a man who just recently contributed one of his kidneys to his wife to save her life. He did not use a cloning procedure, he unselfishly gave up one of his own.

CHOICE. Where are all the people who believe in choice when the choice is to giving up their body part or life to save someone else as this man did, as opposed to giving up someone elses body part or life to save yours or a loved one.

There is a tremendous danger in abuse with cloning. We tend to look at a cloned animal as not being a living thing. The cloned sheep was still a living, breathing, feeling animal. A cloned human would be the same - not a zombi that has no awareness.

I can't understand how some people can be so against the horrors of war for any reason and not bat an eye when it comes to the horrors of abortion or partial birth abortion issues. Inconsistent!

That it will happen outside our country is a reason why we should follow? What happened to the assertion (usually coming from outside the country) that the U.S. is the super power and in position of leadership, that we should be held to a higher standard from the rest of the world?

If it is my child or grandchild - maybe I change my mind. That would be a weakness and selfishness that I probably possess. But it doesn't make it right in the overall scheme of things.
Banan
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Peralko
Member
I have no problem with stem cell research to find answers to the many diseases that continue to plague us. As far as cloning goes, there is a lot we don't understand about what actually happens in the process. Growing spare parts, such as a heart, kidney, etc. would be a great way to replace diseased organs. However, if you clone a person, that would result in an identical, but separate person with their own rights as a human being. Too often cloning is depicted in the movies as an instant copy of yourself--same age etc. Of course, a clone would have to grow from birth like any other person. Since circumstances of growing up would be different, the child would grow into a person with different life experiences. It would look identical to what you looked like at the same age, but it would perhaps talk differently, have different injuries, different education, etc. Any harvesting of organs from that person to yourself would have to be totally voluntary on the clone's part. The clone would be entitled to the same rights and protection as anyone else. Neither you nor anyone else would have "ownership" of the clone.

As far as recycling, when are we going to start "Soylent Green"? :ph43r:
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
Soylent Green is people..........
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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