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Mark Twain On Patriotism; A good read
Topic Started: Aug 19 2004, 08:03 PM (257 Views)
corky52
Member
http://www.twainquotes.com/Patriotism.html

I was hunting for something else I came on this and found it very good reading.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Kind of sarcastic.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Colo_Crawdad
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Lowell
Just "kind of?" That was always Twain's style. Don't you love it?

Lowell
"WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Yep. Think I'll vote for him. Write in. ;)

Posted Image
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Peralko
Member
Curious about how he arrived at such sarcasm on patriotism. Did he see a lot of patriotism and flagwaving in the politics at the time? Was he a pacifist that that saw patriotism as a cause of war?
Have to admit besides reading TomSawyer and Huck Finn, I have not read a lot about Mark Twain.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Is he distinguishing between the nationalism (populism) that lead to WWs in Europe as opposed to patriotism?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Peralko
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Chris,

How do you see nationalism differ from patriotism?
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Let me define it simply as possible and we can go from there.

Patriotism is love of country. Period.

Nationalism is love of country and hatred of others'. Period.

Furthermore, populism is love of country and hatred of others' countries and hatred of others' principles or beliefs or values.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Peralko
Member
Quote:
 
Nationalism is love of country and hatred of others'. Period.


Chris,

I don't buy the hatred part. Perhaps nationalism can be seen as a "we are better than you" syndrome, but I don't see the hatred in that. European countries are typically nationalistic, but it does not (normally) cross into a hatred--soccer games being the exception! :D
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Per, degree depends on who it is.

Nationalism and populism displace patriotism for many in the Terror War. As seen in "They hate us" implying the entire Muslim world and just the US.

Nationalism displaces patriotism in the disdaid some in the US hold for say Canadians.

Populism displaces patriotism in the contempt some partisans hold for so-called unAmerican opponents and some fundamentalist hold for so-called immoral secularists.

Some nationalism even populism is justified. If we were in a war against say Middle Eastern nations, one would expect some degree of hatred nationally and even ideologically to be useful in uniting us against a fairly well-defined enemy.

One would think so, for us, but for them? For Nazis in WWII?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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corky52
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Chris,
Patriotism isn't blind, Nationalism is blind. Populism as you define it is blind and deaf.
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Here is an excellent article about Twain that puts his writings in tune with his time--it explains why he was such an anti-imperalist. Feelings ran strongly against Twain from time-to-time.

http://www.internationalist.org/marktwain3.html

Sylvia
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Peralko
Member
Sylvia,

Do you suppose your reference is a bit biased, or colored in their view? Like deep red!
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Corky, only thing worse is the Pinball Wizard!
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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sylley2000
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Sylvia, Grand Bend ON
Peralko,

Oops, so sorry didn't notice the very 'red' hammer and cycle symbol in the top left corner. There is no way Twain would have embraced Trotsky or Lenin.

Hopefully, these two are more reflective of the historical period in which he lived and why he would have been an active anti-imperalist:

http://www.spanamwar.com/Twain.htm

http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/markt...imperialism.htm

Mark Twain has been a favourite author of mine for quite some time. He was a brilliant writer.

Sylvia
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