Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Intelligent Designer Identified!
Topic Started: Jun 28 2006, 10:34 AM (710 Views)
teryt
Member Avatar
Missing in Action Member
Quote:
 
The one that science takes from philosophy is defined as "The theory that physical matter is the only reality and that everything, including thought, feeling, mind, and will, can be explained in terms of matter and physical phenomena."
So is this what we're talking about when we discuss science? If so, I think we may have achieved clarity!
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Have we? That clarity has always existed for science. Why would Creationists want to obfuscate that clarity when arguing ID? Why would they wear one hat talking to evangelicals, another when talking to scientists?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
teryt
Member Avatar
Missing in Action Member
cmoehle
Jul 5 2006, 04:18 PM
Have we? That clarity has always existed for science. Why would Creationists want to obfuscate that clarity when arguing ID? Why would they wear one hat talking to evangelicals, another when talking to scientists?

I was talking subjective clarity - for me!

I don't know about hats as I don't wear them (makes my head hot). LOL Seriously, I'm not totally sure I know what you're getting at. Sure, when a Creationist talks to other Creationists, they would be talking as an insider. Then again, if the Creationist was also a scientist (I know some), they could talk as an insider their too.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Forgetful? We just recently covered this. A Creationist talking to evangelicals speaks of the Designer as their (and I presume, your) God. But to a scientist insists there's no connection implied. I have cited most of the prime movers of ID, Johnson, Behe, and Dembski, speaking in this Janus way. I think it was Alan who put it as wearing two hats, saying of course that's done.

See, there's clarity there too, isn't there?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
teryt
Member Avatar
Missing in Action Member
Great! Gotta get to work - the happiness of pursuit!
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
me "Thing is, banan, science does not prove anything, but it does have hypotheses and theories that explain and predict matter, the most familiar being Big Bang."

Eric "No, we can't explain, within the confines of a well developed and tested theory, where matter came from. But, if you'd care to learn what some scientists think MIGHT be an answer, put QUANTUM COSMOLOGY into Google and you'll find a lot of information."

OK, so I was a little off, I'm learning. I'd thought Inflationary Theory part of Big Bang. Not so...

Quote:
 
The standard big bang theory postulates that the universe began 10 to 15 billion years ago with an explosion of superheated matter which spread out to form the visible universe. It describes what happened after the big bang, but does not explain why any "bang" should have taken place, how so much matter could arise from nothing if matter can be neither created nor destroyed, or why we see only a minute part of the mega-universe.

These and other perplexing questions are addressed by the inflationary theory of cosmology....Inflationary theory explains the origin of matter and the universe in the first "billion-trillion-trillionth of a second" by means of a period of hyper-rapid inflation which leads to the big bang. Here the observable universe originates from a "false vacuum," a peculiar form of matter predicted by many theories in particle physics. In quantum theory a vacuum is not empty, but "on a subatomic level is a perpetual tempest, seething with activity"....


Now Inflationary Theory I've heard of and read about, but here is a new aspect, at least to me, the notion of "eternal inflation", or repeated, almost recursive, fractal-like, based on simple rules:

Quote:
 
Many interesting concepts are implied by the inflationary theory, including "eternal inflation." By the very nature of the inflationary process, Guth believes, "once inflation begins, it never stops!" (p. 246). As time goes on, further big bangs come forth from the underlying "false vacuum" from which our universe emerged. This ongoing cosmic process eventually creates an infinite series of universes like our own, which Guth terms "pocket universes." By the very nature of inflation itself, these pocket universes are produced at an ever-increasing rate according to a fractal pattern -- that is, a repeating sequence replicated on smaller and smaller scales.


Guth's theory runs counter to earlier Judeo-Christian and scientific theories:

Quote:
 
Guth points out that today "the dominant view of the origin of the universe, in both Judeo-Christian and scientific contexts, portrays it as a unique event," and that "modern scientists frequently refer to the big bang as the beginning of time...However, if the ideas of eternal inflation are correct, then the big bang was not a singular act of creation, but was more like the biological process of cell division....


Citation from Alan H. Guth's The Inflationary Universe: The Quest for a New Theory of Cosmic Origins. Source, A New Theory of Cosmic Origins.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »
Add Reply