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Terror War
Topic Started: Jun 23 2006, 05:16 AM (546 Views)
tomdrobin
Member
campingken
Jun 24 2006, 02:46 AM
Tied Hands sounds like something Mr. Chickenhawk Bill O'Riely would say. It sounds good but really means nothing...

Ken

Ken
I don't know anything about this Chickenhawk O'Riely fella, so can't comment. If our stated goal is to win the hearts and minds of Iraqi's, then we need to get rid of our weapons, and get down on our knees and start doing some serious boot licking. And, at the same time bring in truckloads of money to whoo them properly.

Political rhetoric aside we need to "win the war". For this to happen the people need to fear us more than they fear the insurgents. We need to be the invincible guy with a big stick. And, I believe we can play that roll. But, we must not be too concerned about "our image" in the process. How do you think Sadaam maintained control over these diverse groups? Perhaps he understood them better than we do.

Yes, I can see at some point in time, when enough is enough, that there would be just cause for leveling a village. But, maybe I'm just a ruthless war mongering chicken hawk. So lets just stay the course and let them pick our unfortunate sons off daily while we maintain our image. Or, put our tail between our legs and head home in defeat.
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campingken
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Tom,

If someone stood your wife up against a wall and shot her would that make you fear and obey him? If an invading force bomded a town where your son and daughter lived would that cause you to stop resisting? Terror begats more terror. So whatever the answer is in Iraq it is something different than what we are currently doing. I am truly thankful that my son has served his 4 years and does not have to go back there again.

Saddam was a cold blooded killer and the world is better off without him so it would be ironic if we brought "freedom" to Iraq by acting like Sadam

O'Reily is a conservative (he claims) talk show host who although he never served is real big on sending the sons of others off to fight.


Ken
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
You win hearts and minds by building infrastructure (roads, schools, pwer plants, etc) and security so the country can get back on its feet. As I understand, despite all the negative news, that is primarily what we and other nations are doing. The US has a long history of doing this--Central America, the Far East, best examples Japan and Germany. No other nation gies as much in aid and assistance around the world. And yet we're hated by many it seems.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Tom
Member
These tribal wars have been going on from the beginning of time. Will never end. Than the religion thing. You see that all over the world. They all feel there religion is the only and best. All others should be condemned. Bunch of hypocrites. Some religion even believe in killing you if you do not believe there way. One reason I do not follow any religion.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Religion is a tribal thing, I believe.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
For what it's worth, the government here may have been pulling our leg. John Stewart and Alberto Gonzales: WMP Video, QT Video.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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ngc1514
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Got a chuckle out of Richard Cohen's column this morning about the 7 "terrorists" caught recently.

Quote:
 
This bunch would call kittens a threat
Richard Cohen - Washington Post
Wednesday, June 28, 2006

It is the sheerest luck, I know, that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales looks (to me) a bit like Jerry Mahoney because he fulfills the same function for the Bush administration that the dummy did for the ventriloquist Paul Winchell.

At risk to his reputation and the mocking he must get when he comes home at night, Gonzales will call virtually anyone an al-Qaida-type terrorist. He did that last week in announcing the arrest of seven inferred (it's the strongest word I can use) terrorists, one of whom has the highly improbable name of Rothschild Augustine. I thought I saw Dick Cheney moving his lips.

Rotschild Augustine was indicted along with six others on charges they wanted to blow up the Sears Tower in Chicago and the FBI bureau in Miami. The arrests came in the nick of time, since all that prevented mass murder, mayhem and an incessant crawl at the bottom of our TV screens was the lack of explosives, weapons or vehicles.

The alleged conspirators did have boots, which were supplied by an FBI informant. Maybe the devil does wear Prada.

Naturally, cable news was all over the story since it provided pictures. These included shots of the Sears Tower, the FBI bureau, the seven alleged terrorists and, of course, Gonzales dutifully playing his assigned role of the dummy. He noted that the suspects wanted to wage a "full ground war" against the United States and "kill all the devils" they could --- this despite a clear lack of materiel and sidewalk-level IQs.

Still, as Gonzales pointed out, "if left unchecked, these homegrown terrorists may prove to be as dangerous as groups like al-Qaida." A presidential medal for the man, please.

It is not now and never has been my intention to belittle terrorism. Clearly, if what the government alleges turns out to be the truth --- look, that sometimes happens --- then these guys deserve punishment. But theirs was such a preposterous, crackpot plot that the only reason it rose to the level of a televised news conference by the nation's chief law enforcement officer was the Bush administration's compulsive need to hype everything. For this, Gonzales, like a good Boy Scout, is always prepared.

Does it matter? Yes, it does. It matters because the Bush administration has already lost almost all credibility when it comes to terrorism. It said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and there were none. It said al-Qaida and Iraq were in cahoots and that was not the case.

It has so exaggerated its domestic success in arresting or convicting terrorists that it simply cannot be believed on that score. About a year ago, for instance, President Bush (with Gonzales at his side) asserted that "federal terrorism investigations have resulted in charges against more than 400 suspects and more than half of those charged have been convicted." The Washington Post looked into that and found that the total number of (broadly defined) "terrorism" convictions was 39.

This compulsion to exaggerate and lie is so much a part of the Bush administration's DNA that it persists even though it has become counterproductive. For instance, the arrest of Augustine and Co. essentially coincided with the revelation by The New York Times that the government has "gained access to financial records from a vast international database and examined banking transactions involving thousands of Americans. ... " Almost instantly, the administration did two things: It confirmed the story and complained about it. The Times account only helped terrorists, Cheney said.

Is he right? I wonder. This is a serious matter. After all, Americans are being asked to surrender a measure of privacy and civil liberties in the fight against terrorism --- essentially the argument Cheney has been making. I, for one, am willing to make some compromises, but I feel downright foolish doing so when the fruit of the enterprise turns out to be seven hapless idiots who would blow up the Sears Tower, if only they could get to Chicago.

Cheney in particular has zero credibility, but his administration colleagues are not far behind. Prominent among them, of course, is the attorney general, a man so adept at crying wolf and mouthing the administration's line that he simply cannot be believed any more.

The Sears Tower. The Miami bureau of the FBI. Please. Someone, put the dummy back in his box.

> Richard Cohen is a Washington Post columnist. His column appears occasionally.
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
teryt
Jun 23 2006, 01:13 PM
cmoehle
Jun 23 2006, 05:23 PM
"I thought that by fighting them in Iraq we would be keeping them over there."

Yeah, that argument is holding less and less water.

I beg to differ. The evidence (at least anecdotal) suggests that Iraq & Afghanistan has been a magnet for the slime.


And I wonder why???

Anything to do with someone getting behind a microphone and telling the world; "The party's over here, boys - bring it on!" ???

Hmmmm?
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"Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Cohen asks "Does it matter?"

You bet, this is a real war, and imaginary announcements put us all on then off guard.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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