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| Gay Marriage Threat; What is it? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 7 2006, 06:50 PM (865 Views) | |
| DocInBird | Jun 12 2006, 05:48 PM Post #31 |
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Brad, did your church kick out Jim Bakker, just because he got caught in adultery? There are so many others, that I don't even know where to start. The short answer is no. They just forgave them. But homosexuality, which god created, if you believe in creationism or ID, is never forgiven. why is that? Why did the author of Leviticus (many centuries later) specifically mention male homosexuality and ignore female homosexuality? Does this god think of them differently? Which creates the most harm? Ministers or church members who are adulterous of the gay couple? |
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--doc Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America. | |
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| Cornelius | Jun 13 2006, 07:47 AM Post #32 |
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Easy to explain that one Chris. Since 1998 about a third of opposite sex couples, didn’t get married but went for a registered partnership. That gives them the same right and privileges but they are not registered as being married. Therefore children born between these couples can be seen as born out of wedlock but it’s not really the same now is it? The number of single- and teenage mothers are at their lowest in the western world and still declining. |
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| cmoehle | Jun 13 2006, 07:52 AM Post #33 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Kees, I always wonder when reading op-eds on foreign issues just how biased and prejudiced the views are to begin with. Seems that author was very selective in his selection of data. Typical of people wih an agenda. Thanks for that info! |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 10:11 AM Post #34 |
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My church was not involved with Jim Bakker. Did you forget that he went to jail? Lost his TV ministry? His wife divorced him? He was ruined, not just by the government, but by HIS church as well. Lets not forget Jimmy Swaggart. He got caught not only being a hypocrite, but also taking pictures of a prostitute. He repented right away, but when his church told him to step down for a year, he refused, and ended up virtually losing his TV ministry. This happened because he lost his credibility with Christians, and they stopped watching his show (including me). He did repent, and when this happens, the bible instructs us to take the person back. If the person had been in ministry, the ministry is taken away, at least for a while, until we know that the repentance is real. Then the ministry is given back. Case in point, our previous pastor was caught in adultry. He repented and resigned. We accepted his resignation. People in some churches (like mine) pay a price for adultry. We do forgive, as Jesus instructed us, but we also make sure there are consequeces. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 10:19 AM Post #35 |
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Not fair Chris. Again, what is a "Christian"? If someone gets married in a church, to most people, they are "Christian". If this same person (like most people that get married) does not agree with church doctrine, and does not even attend church regularly, when this same person gets divorced, we then say "look! here is a Christian that got divorced". There are no statistics about how many divorces there are of people that regularly attend church, that say divorce is wrong and agree with church doctrine. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 10:22 AM Post #36 |
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Fact is, a registered parnership is not a marriage, so the static is valid. Seems to me that these couples want the government privilages, but not the perminace of marriage. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 13 2006, 10:30 AM Post #37 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Not fair? What's not fair? Some would argue the nation is over 90% Christian. That implies the divorces are largely Christian. We know from data the prison populations are largely Christian. What's not fair is playing the True Christian card everytime some unpleasant fact of Christianity is brought up. How does, those gays who do not marry for love but only monetary benefits are not True Gays, sound? Logical, reasonable? Not fair? Not my problem Christianity does NOT work morally all that well. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 10:51 AM Post #38 |
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Bad logic... Are illegal aliens citizens just because they live here? Is a person a scientist just because he performed a scientific experiment in high school? Is a person a race car driver just because he took a Bonderant driving course? Is a person a lawyer because he defended himself in small claims court once? Am I a Catholic because I went to mass once? Some people use this logic to justify lies they tell people about themselves. By far, the number one lie people tell is that they are a Christian. I should be happy! This is changing. Because of all the negativity toward Christians today, people are starting to not want others to think they are Christian any more. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 13 2006, 11:06 AM Post #39 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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So what do you reckon the True Christian population is, 1-2%? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 11:32 AM Post #40 |
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Only God knows the true Christian population. If you want fair ammo against Christians, I'll give it to you. I don't want to be a "card" player. 1. We are wimpy, afraid to speak up for ourselves. 2. We don't support our churches enough. Many churches have financial problems. 3. We don't support our missionaries. We send them out, and then forget they are there. 4. We still fellowship in "clicks" (like high school) and ignore new comers. 5. We are petty and overlook big issues while making a "federal case" out of little things. 6. We don't preach the gospel. 7. We don't know our own bible. We don't know what it says. 8. We don't support the church with our time. Most of the work is done by 10 to 20% of the members. 9. We are hypocrites, condeming some one for doing something we do ourselves. 10. We only act like Christians on Sunday. Every other day of the week we act like everyone else. These are the unpleasant facts about Christianity. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 11:42 AM Post #41 |
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Chris said "Not fair? Not my problem Christianity does NOT work morally all that well." You are absolutely correct. Christianity does not do a good job preventing immorality. But it does offer forgiveness to those who want to repent, thanks to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. And that is the whole point! |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 13 2006, 11:47 AM Post #42 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Anyone can forgive anyone. We're all just human. There's no elite who can claim sole possession of forgiveness. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Cornelius | Jun 13 2006, 02:09 PM Post #43 |
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Alan, you lost me here, what government privileges are we talking about? I don’t know about he US but over here I can’t think of any. |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 02:28 PM Post #44 |
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Maybe my use of the term "government privileges" confused you. I mean the rights that you have in marriage. For example, the ability to stay with a spouse after visiting hours at the hospital, or signing a permission slip for a dependant child. I am assuming that this is what you get with a "registered partnership"? |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| abradf2519 | Jun 13 2006, 02:31 PM Post #45 |
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True, anyone can forgive anyone. Where did I imply an elite? There is no elite. I am talking about forgiveness from God for one's sin, not from us. We have to forgive too, but what gets us eternal life is forgiveness from God. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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1:28 PM Jul 11