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Us & Iran's Nuke Program; Can this really work considering . . .
Topic Started: Jun 6 2006, 03:25 PM (958 Views)
pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
TexasShadow
Jun 7 2006, 09:33 AM
I figure it's a conspiracy of sorts. we let (help) them put a rope around our necks, and then we retaliate with righteous justification.

Geeze that sounds kinda creepy, but I'm not sure if I'm reading you completely correctly - can you expound on that a bit, Jane?
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"Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"
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tomdrobin
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I think the proposal is a good move. Actually it may not be what the Iranian leaders wanted, but it caught them off guard. IMO they want to justify any actions by exploiting hostilities with us. Now, we have undercut that justification by offering a peaceful solution. It will be hard to back away from that without negative consequences from popular perception in Iran.

They are not really comparable to N. Korea, which is an oligarchy ruled by one ruthless individual determined to hold power at all cost. They are a republic (of sorts). The Islamic heirarchy does have ultimate power and enfluence. But, they are still suject to popular opinion.
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teryt
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tomdrobin
Jun 8 2006, 04:51 AM
They are not really comparable to N. Korea, which is an oligarchy ruled by one ruthless individual determined to hold power at all cost. They are a republic (of sorts). The Islamic heirarchy does have ultimate power and enfluence. But, they are still suject to popular opinion.

Thanks for pointing that out - you are of course right. I do wonder sometimes which one is ultimately the more dangerous.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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TexasShadow
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Jane
I figure it's a conspiracy of sorts. we let (help) them put a rope around our necks, and then we retaliate with righteous justification.

Geeze that sounds kinda creepy, but I'm not sure if I'm reading you completely correctly - can you expound on that a bit, Jane?

Just going by past history. Whenever it looks like we're going to have to fight someone, we arm them first, making $$$$ both ways.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Tom "They are a republic (of sorts)."

Who? NK? Dictatorship? Iran? Theocracy? Both are on the opposite end of the spectrum from a republican form of government.

What, Iran has elections? So did Saddam.



Jane "Just going by past history. Whenever it looks like we're going to have to fight someone, we arm them first, making $$$$ both ways."

I guess that's the ploy Teryt's been alluding to.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
One of the best things we ever did for the mullahs, is all the sword rattling and Axis of Evil stuff.

Given our history with Iran as much as Iranians dislike some of the fundy stuff the mullahs do, they will rally around the flag when it looks like we are meddling or threatening.
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

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cruiser
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whether or not anyone on this forum agrees, under the NPT which Iran has signed, allows them to create and do nuclear research for peaceful purposes. If they wish to enrich uranium to a certain point for energy reactors, It is THEIR right!
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.

Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)
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teryt
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cruiser
Jun 8 2006, 10:01 PM
whether or not anyone on this forum agrees, under the NPT which Iran has signed, allows them to create and do nuclear research for peaceful purposes. If they wish to enrich uranium to a certain point for energy reactors, It is THEIR right!

I agree - it's all the other stuff . . .
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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abradf2519
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I have a different theory. I think the Iranians are just buying time. I think they really want a bomb. Why? Because they want it as a defensive weapon against a US invasion.

I think that the "Arab street" was very supprised when we actually invaded Iraq. They expected us to cave into Eurpean pressure to seek yet another diplomatic solution.

They see the west as decadent.
Quote:
 
Being in a state of decline or decay.
Marked by or providing unrestrained gratification; self-indulgent.
They think we are too weak to stand up to them. In the case of some European nations, this is true. They underestimated us though. I think this is why there has been no major terrorist attack here.

They now realize that they cannot push us around with terrorism like they did Spain. So they need something else. That thing is nuclear weapons.
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
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Banandangees
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If it comes down to hardball between US and Iran, forced, led or tricked, will Russia and/or China stand idlely by with China's expanding economy so dependent on oil?

If we (as a politically cavernously divided nation) have difficulty stomaching dealing with the Iraq war, what happens to our stomachs when we take on Iran and on top of that China decides to take Taiwan at that opportune time? How prepared are we (mentally) to take on a real battle?

I can't help but think that Iran is like that little guy shooting off his mouth at mister huge while all the time he senses mister hugher lingering behind him ready to give some support for one reason or another.

Does that mean that we don't address the Iran thing? No! I'm just thinking of what our stomachs will tolerate (based on Iraq) and how our political scramblings for power will just add to our "decadence." What are we prepared for?
Banan
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abradf2519
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Banandangees
Jun 8 2006, 08:46 PM
I can't help but think that Iran is like that little guy shooting off his mouth at mister huge while all the time he senses mister hugher lingering behind him ready to give some support for one reason or another.

I think we will end up with China on our side. We should not underestimate how much the sucess of their economy is dependant on ours. All we have to do is start taking about tarrifs or embargoes and they will soften to our viewpoint.

I think that is why Hugo Chavez feels so safe running his mouth. We need his oil.
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
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teryt
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Banandangees
Jun 9 2006, 02:46 AM
If it comes down to hardball between US and Iran, forced, led or tricked, will Russia and/or China stand idlely by with China's expanding economy so dependent on oil?


And don't forget aslo, both China & Russia have been complicent with providing nuclear technology, to the tune of big $$$.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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teryt
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abradf2519
Jun 9 2006, 01:43 AM
I have a different theory. I think the Iranians are just buying time. I think they really want a bomb. Why? Because they want it as a defensive weapon against a US invasion.

I think that the "Arab street" was very supprised when we actually invaded Iraq. They expected us to cave into Eurpean pressure to seek yet another diplomatic solution.

They see the west as decadent.
Quote:
 
Being in a state of decline or decay.
Marked by or providing unrestrained gratification; self-indulgent.
They think we are too weak to stand up to them. In the case of some European nations, this is true. They underestimated us though. I think this is why there has been no major terrorist attack here.

They now realize that they cannot push us around with terrorism like they did Spain. So they need something else. That thing is nuclear weapons.

You are wise oh Yoda-won.
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
banan "If we (as a politically cavernously divided nation) have difficulty stomaching dealing with the Iraq war, what happens to our stomachs when we take on Iran and on top of that China decides to take Taiwan at that opportune time? How prepared are we (mentally) to take on a real battle?"

Oh? While I support our efforts in Iraq I do not see those who don't as unwilling to stomach war but rather questioning the justification of it. When seriously threatened, like 9/11, we all stood united. America has always been a reluctant warrior, but will fight when it's justified. What I see here is a new Bush who has aligned himself with that tradition. Shouldn't we stand behind him now?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
abradf2519
Jun 8 2006, 10:16 PM
Banandangees
Jun 8 2006, 08:46 PM
I can't help but think that Iran is like that little guy shooting off his mouth at mister huge while all the time he senses mister hugher lingering behind him ready to give some support for one reason or another.

I think we will end up with China on our side. We should not underestimate how much the sucess of their economy is dependant on ours. All we have to do is start taking about tarrifs or embargoes and they will soften to our viewpoint.

I think that is why Hugo Chavez feels so safe running his mouth. We need his oil.

In other words, let's step back from populist nationalism and let free market economics decide the issue. Isn't that what the Bush offer is all about?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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