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A World Without Religion; Soapbox
Topic Started: Jun 4 2006, 09:00 AM (549 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
True, but in contemporary politics liberal means big government control, conservative limited government. Yet religious authoritarians see and align themselves as politically conservative, though we now call it big government conservatism, or, the more recent label to emerge, populism, standing against liberal progressives. Enough to make your head spin! :ohmy:
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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tomdrobin
Member
Colo_Crawdad
Jun 5 2006, 12:53 AM
As in politics, the problem in religion is the difference is between the authoritarians and the non-authoritarians, those who believe that man is basically innately good as opposed to those who believe that man is basically innately bad.

Lowell
Well put on the authoritarians vs non authoritarians. But, I don't necessarily see a direct connection between their percieved beliefs on the nature of man. Authoritarians I believe want to enforce all morality. While non-authoritarians want much of morality to be personal choice.

The separate issue is man basically good and enfluenced to do wrong by environment, or is he/she basically prone to bad behavior and has to be taught to be good (ie; respect for others, honesty etc.). I believe the latter to be most true, but that may be where we differ.
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Justine
Member
Tom sometimes I wonder why some people only see the bad in something. Sure there has been evil done in the name of religion, but, there has been good also. People who have been hurt by the evil seem to have trouble seeing the good, and they site examples like " people who go to church once a week...." , and forget abut people who devoted their entire lives to helping others in the name of their religion( and I prefer the word faith, as rleigion and faith are not the same thing) .

Mother Thersa is the most famous that I can think of, but there are many like her, quietly doing what is right and good, at much sacrifice to themselves. They chose do do this based on their belief system, and yes, I know there are many who help and have a different belief system, or none at all.

The point is your statement was so broad, and I think it is unfair to always point out the bad like those in the secular world don't cause any pain or trouble to others, HA!

Human nature ,.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Isn't it, though, Justine?

What about those who see only good in something? Or dismiss the bad as not the true something?

Or those who see only bad in the secular world, HA!
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Justine
Member
Well Chris I have yet to see anyone post here on this forum that only bad is in the secular world, or , I have yet to see anyone here on this forum say that bad things have not been done by " religous" folks.

Priests did molest kids, and wars have sprung from the church, and as I stated, I have never seen a poster deny these truths. Christian or not.

But, I haven't read every post in the life of this board, so if you know of one where the poster ONLY saw the good with religion, please feel free to let me know. :)

I am really responding to the last two lines in Toms post. I don't think any " religous" ( ie christian, since I am not aware that we have any muslims posting) folks on this board have ever claimed to be perfect, frankly quite the opposite.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Justine, my round about message was simple: I don't see any of those one-sided people here. I haven't read everything though either.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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DocInBird
Member
So, Mother Terresa is going to Hell? But W is going to heaven? Oh, I am so confused..,.
--doc
Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America.
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Lon Frank
Member
Doc, today's date is 6-6-06 (666). I understand there is free beer at the 'once-in-a-millenum' party at Hell, Michigan. You get the virgins and body paint, I'll get my costume with the goat horns, and I'll meet up with you there. HURRY!

(oh, and if Mother T is giving lap dances, I'm buying!)

:floorrollin:
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
I am somewhat shocked, the world didn't end yesterday and I didn't see any demon's except maybe a little demon rum. Guess I'll have to wait to the fourth for some pyrotechnics. :)
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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abradf2519
Member
The fact is if there was no religion, evil people would just have to find another way to legitimise themselves. Religion is a vicim of these evil people using religion like a wolf in sheep's clothing to hurt people.

It is wrong IMHO, to blame religion for being the victim of evil people's scemes, where for them, religion is just another tool they use to hurt people. Religion, by itself, never hurt anyone.

Its just like those that are in favor of increased gun control, or making guns illegal. They blame the gun for the evil that happens when people use the gun as a tool to hurt people. The reality is, its not the gun, its evil people.

Guns don't hurt people, people hurt people.

Religion doesn't hurt people, people hurt people.
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
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