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Before The Law
Topic Started: May 29 2006, 06:17 PM (460 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Bush signed into law today a measure that prohibits unauthorized demonstrations at national cemeteries within an hour before or after a funeral or memorial service.

The law sets limits on the exercise of beliefs held by supporters of Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church and its leader Rev. Fred Phelps, who are going around the country demostrating at the militgary fumerals of fallen soldiers because they believe God is angry about tolerance of gays in this country.

Which is the law you will follow? Secular, or religious?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
in this case, secular law.
as good old ecclesiastes said: there's a time and place for everything..........
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
So secular law can be, at least in some cases, more moral than religious law?


Isn't render unto Ceasar fitting here?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
Quote:
 
So secular law can be, at least in some cases, more moral than religious law?


yes, but I think in this case the secular law is derived from moral law (golden rule)

but yes, it's a case that clearly shows why we need secular law to both contain and permit religious freedoms.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Right, iow, both secular and religious law can derive from moral law, just that in cases secular is more moral--admitting the opposite as well of course.


"we need secular law to both contain and permit religious freedoms"

Indeed!
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Anti-gay protesters draw ire: Group says new law won't stop protests
Quote:
 
A group of protesters outside Arlington National Cemetery isn't making many friends.

The members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, say soldier deaths are God's vengeance for what the group considers American support for gays.

A uniformed Marine lance corporal lunged toward one of the church protesters Monday. A police officer restrained the Marine and led him away before there was any physical contact. A woman shouted at the protesters to shut up and a man told them to read the Bible.

One person got close to a protester and yelled, "Thank God for America."

The anti-gay demonstrators waved signs with slogans including, "God is America's terror," "Thank God for dead soldiers," "You're going to hell" and "Bush killed them."

A counter-protest across the street in support of troops drew friendly honks and waves.

Anti-gay church says new law won't stop protests

Members of a small anti-gay church said a new law that Pres. George Bush signed this Memorial Day won't stop their protests at military funerals.

At a Memorial Day protest outside Arlington National Cemetery, Margie Phelps of the independent Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, called the deaths of U.S. troops God's punishment for America's acceptance of homosexuality. She said, "America is doomed," and "President Bush doesn't have the power to stop the wrath of God or this message."

That enraged passers-by and troop supporters staging a counter-protest across the street.

The bill Bush signed is aimed at keeping demonstrators from disrupting military funerals.

The American Civil Liberties Union is already helping Westboro challenge state laws banning the church's anti-gay protests outside military funerals.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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tomdrobin
Member
The term religious law is terribly inconcise, and open to interpretation based on one's religious beliefs. So religious law should more appropriately be called religious beliefs. People in this country can practice and demonstrate any religious belief they desire. The problem comes when the practice of their religious beliefs causes harm to others, such as the demonstrations at military funerals. The law making them stay away is appropriate IMO.
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
Not normally a violent person but I think I would have to punch out one of these clowns if I saw them up close and personal, how they could connect what they are doing with appropiate behavior is beyond me. The last thing a grieving family needs is buffons trying to use their dead son or daughter as a political statement.
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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tomdrobin
Member
Our family buried a vet last week. A decorated veteran of WWII, who had served in the 82nd airborne. He got the military honors at his funeral. We were warned about the possibilities of the the nuts showing up, but fortunately they didn't. Don't know what would have happened if they had. I would have been tempted to throw whatever handy at them.
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Banandangees
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".....who are going around the country demostrating at the militgary fumerals of fallen soldiers because they believe God is angry about tolerance of gays in this country.

Which is the law you will follow? Secular, or religious
?

Secular law should apply in this case, not because it is more or less moral, but because Fred Phelps and his crew "only believe" God is angry. And, what sense does it make to apply their interpretation toward fallen soldiers? Who are they to know how God feels? IMO, it's an example of religion gone amuck. Next, they might say that God is angry about our courts tolerance of pedophylia and decide to demonstrate at the funerals of Asian Americans. Makes about as much sense.
Banan
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
Quote:
 
Anti-gay church says new law won't stop protests.

Members of a small anti-gay church said a new law that Pres. George Bush signed this Memorial Day won't stop their protests at military funerals.


Fine.

Round up the continuing offenders and throw 'em in jail! :pistols:
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"Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"
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Banandangees
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Where is Janet Reno when you need her? :)
Banan
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Banan "Who are they to know how God feels?"

Who is anyone to do so? Or anyone to say they don't. Isn't that what religious freedom is about?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Banandangees
Member
Free to believe yes, but some would say that your freedom to believe ends when your action from those beliefs meets someone's nose. In this case the families of the fallen soldiers we send to battle. Demonstrate somewhere else. Their morality lacks the compassion and love of the one they worship.
Banan
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Could the same be said, as a general principle, of other issues related to religion in the public square? Exercise it somewhere else?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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