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Saudi Leaders Reining In The Muttawa
Topic Started: May 25 2006, 10:26 AM (221 Views)
TexasShadow
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Jane
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060525/ap_on_...eligious_police

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - The Interior Ministry said it is taking measures to restrict the powers of the agency that runs the religious police, a force resented by many Saudis for interfering in their personal lives.

In a decree carried by the official Saudi Press Agency late Wednesday, Interior Minister Prince Nayef said members of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, or the religious police, can still make arrests in cases like the harassment of women, but probes will now be conducted by the public prosecutors.

"The role of the commission ... ends with the arrest of the suspect or suspects," said the decree, sent to provincial governors across the kingdom.

The morality squad has long enjoyed wide and unchallenged powers. Its members roam public places, such as malls, markets and universities, looking for such infractions as unrelated men and women mingling in public, men skipping the five daily prayers and women with strands of hair showing from under their veil.

They've scolded salesmen for dressing elegantly, waiters for serving food with a smile and young women for carrying pictures of heartthrobs, such as actor Leonardo di Caprio.

After the arrests, the religious police, known as muttawa in Arabic, would sometimes hold people incommunicado and insist on taking part in ensuing probes.

While some Saudis believe the commission plays a vital role in ensuring full compliance with the strict school of Islam Saudi Arabia follows, others have been speaking out against its intrusions. Some newspapers have published anecdotes of Saudi encounters with the feared agents.

The commission has said it is training its members to be more civil.

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tomdrobin
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It can start out innocently enough, with something like prayer in schools. And, before you know it the religous police are knocking on the door looking for witches to burn at the stake. Isn't secular government a great idea?
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DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
Didn't we do something like this in Salem Mass. ?

Just goes to show you how Islam lives centuries behind the rest of the world.
And they don't know it.
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tomdrobin
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DanHouck
May 29 2006, 01:16 AM
Just goes to show you how Islam lives centuries behind the rest of the world.
And they don't know it.

We keep beating around the bush by claiming the enemy is El Quida or other terrorist groups. Fact is they are Islamic radicals, which are not that distant from mainstream Islamic beliefs.

IMO, those who say this isn't a religious war are trying to be PC. This is the crisis of modernity in the huge masses of believers of islam clashing with the modern world. They can not win. But, they sure can be a thorn in our side until we decide to get to the root of the problem. And, that IMO is their Ayatollas, Mullah's and maddrass teachers, who refuse to give up their power over the people and let secularism prevail for governence.
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
tomdrobin
May 25 2006, 08:59 PM
It can start out innocently enough, with something like prayer in schools. And, before you know it the religous police are knocking on the door looking for witches to burn at the stake. Isn't secular government a great idea?

"secular"??? How are religious police "secular"??? :scratch:
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Tom "Fact is they are Islamic radicals, which are not that distant from mainstream Islamic beliefs."

Oh? Do you really think so? Please explain. Consider the history of Islam. Consider the history of the peoples who have adopted it. Consider each group around the world. I'm curious how all that can be lumped.

Radical fundamentalism is a problem throughout the world. It's not limited to Islam by any stretch.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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pentax
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Kamloops - BC Interior
cmoehle
May 31 2006, 02:53 AM
Radical fundamentalism is a problem throughout the world. It's not limited to Islam by any stretch.

Very true, chris - we have our own "radical fundementalist" problem, less than a day's drive from here.

Bountiful, B. C.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly1.htm
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tomdrobin
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pentax
May 31 2006, 07:43 AM
tomdrobin
May 25 2006, 08:59 PM
It can start out innocently enough, with something like prayer in schools.  And, before you know it the religous police are knocking on the door looking for witches to burn at the stake.  Isn't secular government a great idea?

"secular"??? How are religious police "secular"??? :scratch:

The "isn't secular government a great idea" was a serious statement, not intended as sarcasm. And, the reason it is great of course, is there are no religious police.
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tomdrobin
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cmoehle
May 31 2006, 09:53 AM
Tom "Fact is they are Islamic radicals, which are not that distant from mainstream Islamic beliefs."

Oh? Do you really think so? Please explain. Consider the history of Islam. Consider the history of the peoples who have adopted it. Consider each group around the world. I'm curious how all that can be lumped.

Radical fundamentalism is a problem throughout the world. It's not limited to Islam by any stretch.

Yes Chris I really do think so. Considering the history of peoples who adopted it? Consider the Ottoman Empire ruled by the Sultans, and the Mogul conquerers who spread it throughout Asia. Like the middle east they weren't converted to Islam they were conquered by Islam. Saladin's conquest of Jeruselem, was what prompted Richard the Lion Hearted to launch a crusade to free the holy land. Those countries dominated by Islam, either have, or have a strong political movement to make shiara (Islamic Law), the law of the land. While the right wing Christian zealots may want to enfluence secular politics in this country. They have no desire to make the 10 commandments the law of the land. Well, there might be a lunatic fringe, but that certainly isn't mainstream. Even modern secular Turkey has had difficulties keeping the Islamists from gaining so much support they take over the country. And, if it weren't for the Military rulers they probably would. There are very aggressive militant relgious groups in most if not all muslim majority countries that wish to make Islam the law of the land. Look at the conflict over Cashmere. Remember Bangledesh. Even liberated Iraq can't seem to keep the Islamist out of it's constitution. How about the petitioning of the Indian subcontinent into two countries one predominantly Hindu (India), and the other predominantly Islamic (Pakistan). Up until the nucs were developed they were often at war. If it was one big country (they are all the same people except for religion), there would be even more termoil than there is now, with attempts to make it completely Islamic.
Look at what happened over the Danish cartoons. Do you think anything like that would happen in Isreal or a predominantly Christian country?

I would agree that radical religious fundamentalism is not limited to Islam. But, when you consider the magnitude of radical Islam to the others it is like comparing a firecracker with an H Bomb. Sure there are an enlightened few educated members of Islam that favor secularism. But, they are a very small minority.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Tom, what you describe fits any conquering people. The fact Muslims when they conquered did not force religion on the conquered says to them it was not religious conquest. So much for history.

What about geography and the millions of Muslims around the world who are as peaceful as you or I? Some of them fight in our military.

You've taken a lunatic fringe of radical fundamentalists and projected them onto millions.

"While the right wing Christian zealots may want to enfluence secular politics in this country. They have no desire to make the 10 commandments the law of the land. Well, there might be a lunatic fringe, but that certainly isn't mainstream."

Exactly. And I wouldn't project that lunatic fringe onto mainstream Christians.

"I would agree that radical religious fundamentalism is not limited to Islam. But, when you consider the magnitude of radical Islam to the others it is like comparing a firecracker with an H Bomb."

I would agree with that, comparing a few radical Islamic fundamentalists to a few radical Christian fundamentalists.

Is that because of religion, or politics? I would argue politics. Because we are a free nation, individually, economically and politically, no one faction can ever rise to have that much impact. The people of the Middle East, living as they do under the suppression of monarchies and theocracies, are bound to strike out at anyone they are told is the enemy.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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