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What We Know; Do we see with our eyes or mind?
Topic Started: May 18 2006, 03:10 PM (568 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Alan, evolutionists don't really give a darn about abiogenesis.

And when you say don't support theories, you mean like ID?


"...those that don't agree are just applying the spin."

Well, that sort of poisons the well of discussion, doesn't it?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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DocInBird
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Eric, my poor tiny little brain is fried. These students are ferocious! I will really enjoy this weekend. I will get to your questions, but I really need to decompress. You might want to start with Ken Wilber's excellent book. Quantum Questions:
Mystical Writings of the World's Greatest Physicists. Wow!


As soon as this session is over, I am headed to the Sierra Nevada. Dog and man splashing in the water. Dog and man, with no students....

--doc
Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America.
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ngc1514
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Crud - the DeKalb library doesn't have a copy of the book. How unsurprising. I'll scrounge one up and give it a read. Thanks for the suggestion.
Posted ImageEric
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ngc1514
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abradf2519
May 19 2006, 04:42 PM
Don't speculate how lfe began. Just deal with provable laws.

Just deal with provable laws.

Well... there goes religion and god - right out the window! Nothing provable there.

Posted ImageEric
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
An excerpt of the Introduction to Wilber's Quantum Questions is available here.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Let me try and tie many loose ends back into a thread....

Daniel Dennett, in an essay in Intelligent Thought says of the eye as evidence of intelligent design:
Quote:
 
This is of course a temptimg conclusion, but it is just what evolutionary biology has shown to be mistaken. Yes, eyes are for seeing, but these and other functional organs in the natural world can be generated by processes that are themselves without purpose and without intelligence. This is hard to understand, but so is the idea that colored objects in the world are composed of atmos that are not themselves colored, and that heat is not made of tiny hot things.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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tomdrobin
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Don't we see objects as the way they reflect visible light? Infra red paints a different picture. And, I suppose a vision system with a different response reference would see something entirely different. Our mind doesn't see, but only conceptualizes from historical data input.
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DaveR
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An analogy was used: when the ships of Columbus neared the New World islands for the first time, the indigenous people could not see them.

Sadly, I think the "indigenous people" of Vietnam clearly disproved this theory many, many times over - based on their ability to shoot down a yet-to-be-seen helicopter.

Dave
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan
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TexasShadow
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Jane
isn't this sort of like the old "tree falling in a forest, does it make a sound if there's no one around to hear?".........

when a tree falls, sound waves are sent out, but isn't recorded if there are no ears.

when an object appears in front of a pair of eyes, the eyes see it and send that image to the brain.
if the brain can't identify the object, what happens? does it just shut down, refuse to record that which it doesn't understand? sends a message to the eyes that there isn't really anything there at all... which results in the eyes not being able to see the object?

just trying to understand how it works between the eyes and the brain.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
TPR this morning interviewed an expert in modern day interrogation techniques. Sensory deprivation for five hour, iirc, would induce a state of psychosis. At least your conscious mind needs sensory input to function. Is reality and what we know something else?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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DocInBird
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wow. you can do that? You are allowed to do sensory deprivation for people applying for a job? You are doing some interesting stuff there. If I would guess the quadrangle, would I be far off?
--doc
Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
TPR = Texas Public Radio. The expert was a guest on the talk show. Sorry for being cryptic.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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