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| Values | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 18 2006, 12:22 PM (465 Views) | |
| TexasShadow | May 19 2006, 03:37 PM Post #16 |
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Jane
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it seems to me, and sadly so, that the only way we're going to get the kind of government we really want (as a majority) is to actually participate in the process instead of expecting the people we elect to do it for us. I'm sure that many of them go to DC with idealist (and good) intentions, but the old boys club rules scotch that pretty quick. |
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| cmoehle | May 19 2006, 03:47 PM Post #17 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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To the extent any political philosophy or practice that places the collective good, be it social or state, over the individual, the more it fits that pattern. I believe that there is, from the ethical point of view, no symmetry between suffering and happiness, or between pain and pleasure. Both the greatest happiness principle of the Utilitarians and Kant's principle, "Promote other people's happiness...", seem to me (at least in their formulations) fundamentally wrong in this point, which is, however, not one for rational argument....In my opinion...human suffering makes a direct moral appeal for help, while there is no similar call to increase the happiness of a man who is doing well anyway. --Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies, 1952 |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| bikemanb | May 19 2006, 09:20 PM Post #18 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Chris's point about the marketing is very valid, the 20 second sound bite has become the defining moment for most voters. The problem is that to tell the truth, they would say too many things that would offend the mass of voters and thus not get elected. Will Rogers used to say about the presidency that we should never vote for anyone that wanted the job, and I think this fits because if they want the job they have to lie like the flea bitten vermin they are. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| tomdrobin | May 19 2006, 09:38 PM Post #19 |
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Member
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Doc Do you really think slick Willy lied to protect Monica? I find that one a hard one to believe. He was being sued in court for a sexual harrassment complaint, that happened when he was Governor of Arkansas. The Monica issue was brought up to show a pattern of behavior. He denied having a sexual relationship with her. Why? The only reason I can see would be to save his reputation and avoid the wrath of Hillary. Had a reporter asked the question, the resultant lie would have just been bad behavior unbecoming of a president. But, he lied under oath, in court. That's the biggie! Not the affair. |
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| TexasShadow | May 19 2006, 10:17 PM Post #20 |
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Jane
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when I call our politicians liars, I don't mean they are malicious liars.. politicians are liars because they tell the masses (voters) what they want to hear. so panderer might be the better word. the lying about personal things like womanizing or dodging military duty are, I think, natural lies of self protection...reasonable and understandable and forgiveable. there isn't one of us who hasn't lied to cover up something we're ashamed of or might get punished for. now lies that cost human lives... are a different category altogether. I don't think GW actually conspired to make up a lie about WMD in Iraq just so he could kick Sadaam's rear out of office. I think someone(Iraqi exiles living over here) was telling him there were WMD in Iraq, but had no concrete proof of it, but GW wanted to do it, so he used that "rumor" to take us to war. But the fact there were no WMD isn't the real issue about our invasion of Iraq. The real issue is that GW struck first, and that, to me, is just plain un-american and immoral. The fact that the american people let him get away with it says something about us... and it's not very nice. |
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| cmoehle | May 20 2006, 06:50 AM Post #21 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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You have a point there, Jane, if they lie to tell us what we want to hear, then aren't we, in effect, lying to ourselves? We have met the enemy and... --Pogo |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | May 20 2006, 07:15 AM Post #22 |
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Lowell
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Anyone remember the old movie, "Mr. Smith goes to Washington?" |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| DocInBird | May 20 2006, 08:48 AM Post #23 |
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Member
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Jane, in less than a week I am back at school for a less rigorous thingie. I would appreciate your permission to quote you regarding what you just said here. I promise that it will be done with respect. Think about it. Some of these students will change the world. Someday, you will turn on the television and somebody will say, "when I was in college , this guy said to me, something from a mythical figure only known as TexasShaddow. This woman rocked my world. Scary, isn't it? |
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--doc Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America. | |
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| TexasShadow | May 20 2006, 11:54 AM Post #24 |
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Jane
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only if they start a new religion and call me "god". ![]() (the being scary part, I mean) |
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| teryt | May 20 2006, 12:32 PM Post #25 |
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Missing in Action Member
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My liar is better'n your liar!
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My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | May 21 2006, 08:44 AM Post #26 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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"It seems to me, and sadly so, that the only way we're going to get the kind of government we really want (as a majority) is to actually participate in the process instead of expecting the people we elect to do it for us." An op-ed from today: Freedom and public responsibility
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| roscoe | May 21 2006, 09:16 AM Post #27 |
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Member
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Vote. It scares them. |
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| cmoehle | May 21 2006, 09:21 AM Post #28 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Informed voting scares the heck out of 'em! That's one value of forums that discuss politics--any forum that does. You get to test out your ideas against the exposure of those of others. Even if you never win an argument on the Internet--and I've never seen that happen--it is informative. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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1:03 PM Jul 11