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| Dumbing Down Of America, 2 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 12 2006, 11:46 AM (5,626 Views) | |
| cmoehle | Jun 22 2006, 05:27 AM Post #616 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Interesting piece on Georges Lemaître who was not only a mathematician and physicist--"Father of the Big Bang theory" who derive the Hubble constant and argued with Einstein for the cosmological constant--but a Catholic priest: The Creation Myth. Some highlights of his own words:
And
The author concludes: "Lemaître indeed would not ever have allowed a term like creation to be used credibly in a scientific paper. By its very nature, the word describes something that is empirically unverifiable -- how, in principle, could any experiment or theoretical quantification be made of an act or process (for want of a better term) that by definition precedes all things, including time, space and matter? Lemaître never made this mistake." |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 22 2006, 09:38 AM Post #617 |
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Missing in Action Member
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Great shades of Pordgy Tirebiter! |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 22 2006, 10:20 PM Post #618 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Doc, found this. Someone said befire Fireside. Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. --Buddha (536 B.C.-483 B.C.) |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| ngc1514 | Jun 24 2006, 08:14 AM Post #619 |
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"Their studies...?" What studies? The refusal to be nailed down on a strict definition of "irreducilble complexity" shows the non-scientific nature of ID. No one attempted to answer this the last time I asked it, but I'll throw it out one more time. Why are the tiny bones of the middle ear - mallus, incus and stapes - not used as examples of irreducible complexity? By what SCIENTIFIC definition are the flagella of rotifers decided to be irreducilby complex, but the ossicles of the middle ear not? "Missing link" is such an unscientific term. Are you talking about intermediate or transitional forms? One of the most basic lessons learned in evolution is that ALL forms are transitional forms. Species evolve as the allele frequency of the genes changes. There was nothing odd about Neanderthal DNA not matching human DNA - no more odd than human DNA not matching chimp DNA. All the sequencing shows what that the branching between species occured futher back in time that some scientists thought. Neadnerthal was not a transitional or intermediate form from our proto-human ancestors to modern man, but just one of what will probably turn out to be a number of evolutionary dead ends. ID is left with the unenviable position of having to show why the DNA of Neanderthal and human had any matching at all. Oh.. because god made it like that. Right. |
Eric
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| teryt | Jun 24 2006, 10:06 AM Post #620 |
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As my dad would say (as I evolved from him), "This is like talking to a stump." (of course, the stump be me. of course) Forgive me, I need my morning coffee, and to get ready to go camp in the woods. Things will evolve from there
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My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 24 2006, 10:14 AM Post #621 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Are you preparing for a stump speach?
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 24 2006, 11:02 AM Post #622 |
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Missing in Action Member
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I dunno, I'm stumped!
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My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 24 2006, 11:21 AM Post #623 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Do you recall the stump Starrett and Shane uprooted? Tree of knowledge? Tree of life? Or just the evolution of the West? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| ngc1514 | Jun 24 2006, 11:28 AM Post #624 |
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It would be less like talking to a stump if you were willing to talk in specifics rather than generalities. Science is all about details and how those details make a picture of the world in which we live. One of these details are the above-mentioned ossicles and the inability to show why they are not irreducibly complex while flagella are. This is fascinating stuff and ignoring it does nothing to support your position that this form of creationism should be admitted into the science classroom. Do the basic research, formulate a real scientific theory that is subject to testing and falsification and you'll have something that is science rather than just snarfling about "viewpoints." |
Eric
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| cmoehle | Jun 25 2006, 08:02 AM Post #625 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The ID Movement, and it is a movement not a theory, is not just not science, it is anti-science. Example? Increasing evidence for intelligent design theory
But wait a minute, not so fast. Where was this claimed increasing evidence for ID? Why, there was none mentioned to substantiate that vacuous claim. What we have is merely another attack on science. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| ngc1514 | Jun 25 2006, 08:38 AM Post #626 |
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I love it when non-scientific types point to such errors as an effort to point out the deficiencies of science! What they don't understand is that this is not a failing of science, but an affirmation of its self-correcting nature. Scientists are, above all else, humans with the same foibles and failings inherent to the rest of us'n people. Yes, people - even scientists - make blunders and mistakes. Even more telling are the mistakes of the IDers who, so anxious to show evolution to be wrong, tell lies and half-truths. The Nebraska Man is a prime example. A quote from Henry Osborn - the scientist to whom the tooth was sent:
Did he claim this to be a "missing link?" His error was in claiming that it might have been a primate tooth of uncertain genera or species. This is a far cry from claiming it to be a missing link as the creationists claim. The talkorigins FAQ is a great place to dig up (chortle) such information and the FAQ on Nebraska Man finishes up with:
Infallibility is a claim of the religionists and not the scientists. And you are correct that showing errors in evolution does nothing to support creationism. Other than claiming "God did it that way,' creationism offers no answers. |
Eric
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1:27 PM Jul 11