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| Dumbing Down Of America, 2 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 12 2006, 11:46 AM (5,629 Views) | |
| abradf2519 | Jun 16 2006, 03:14 PM Post #586 |
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Member
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Chris "We can measure the activity of the brain." Can we measure what I am thinking about? Nope. |
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Alan Milan, New York, USA | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 16 2006, 03:14 PM Post #587 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Ignoring Eric's counter argument. Explanation would sure help to understand what you mean by an otherwise empty claim. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 16 2006, 03:18 PM Post #588 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Actually, yes, not just the activity, but the patterns and locations. I worked for a cog psych prof who measure early language learning that way. You can also apply signals from the brain to command motors. Useful for quadriplegics to achieve independent mobility. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 18 2006, 10:12 AM Post #589 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Daily there are stories in the main stream scientific literature that evidence, question, debate, enhance various aspects of evolutionary theory. There's one in the headlines now: Ducklike Fossil Points to Aquatic Origins for Modern Birds: "Fossils of those avians that gave rise to the modern bird lineage "are relatively rare in the Cretaceous," explains Matthew Lamanna of the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, co-author of a paper detailing the finds, published today in Science. But "when we mapped ecology onto our evolutionary tree, a pattern became apparent that species leading up to modern birds are mostly aquatic," Lamanna notes." And what do we see about Intelligent Design? The same old politically motivated arguments against evolution, and not one word explaining, detailing, discussing ID itself. Here's one from the home of ID, the Center for Science and Culture: Jeff Schwartz, Jeff Schwartz, Darwinism, Intelligent Design, and the Increasingly Byzantine Conspiracy to Establish a Theocracy. It starts out inventing attacks on ID supporters:
George Patton is dead. His was a political statement, having, obviously, nothing to do with ID. Couldn't the writer find a real instance of a scientist attacking IDers? The article goes on:
Of course he's not the only one. All scientists doing research into evolution do that, that's what science is about. So why the deception? The trickery? Because it leads into accusation:
Sorry, but you do hear about it in the main stream media all the time. I see articles every day. And, yes, evolutionary theory is pointed out as just that, a theory in the classroom. So why the lies?
Conspiracy theory about conspiracies? So, uh, what did they say about ID? Any new discoveries? Any new disputes? No, nothing at all. As vacuous as any other ID claim. And here's an editorial by a pastor, Theories of evolution vs. intelligent design:
He gets the natural selection part right. Evolution is thus not random. But he gets the "survival of the fittest as proposed by Darwin" wrong. Darwin never proposed that, it was Herbert Spencer proposing a Darwinian-like social theory. Evolutionary theory is about genes, changes in alleles, not society. Then, in a typical bait and switch, he asks the origins question--evolutionary theory does not concern origins. Next he contradicts himself. He said evolution was the result of natural selection, the result of "some organizational laws of physics, chemistry, biology -- the building blocks -- that make "evolution" possible." In the bait and switch he says the opposite: "The precise organization of forces that sustain the universe could not just be happening randomly....Since events are not independent, how can we accept a random force?"" Hey, it's either not random or it is. Not only that, but he begs the question: "What is this guiding, organizing design process? I call it God. They call it intelligent design." Well, if everything requires a "guiding, organizing design process" then what "guiding, organizing design process" is responsible for God or ID? Science would keep asking. Religion settles for answers that are nothing more than assumptions. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 18 2006, 10:37 AM Post #590 |
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Missing in Action Member
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Thanks for keeping us so informed, and resolidifying your beliefs & opinions with us. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 18 2006, 10:54 AM Post #591 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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This thread itself does that. Asked what does ID say, I get little response. Asked what would you teach of ID, I get just mention it. But just like the two ID articles, there's plenty of attacking science in attempts to undermine it. Just no substance to what ID is. I think this leads to an obvious conclusion about ID, it's vacuous. A conclusion not based on belief or opinion, but facts, seen here in this thread and dozens of articles like the two above. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 18 2006, 11:55 AM Post #592 |
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Missing in Action Member
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I'm willing to wait. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 18 2006, 12:58 PM Post #593 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Oh, I'm willing to wait, too, until ID says something worth listening to and teaching in the science classroom. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 18 2006, 01:45 PM Post #594 |
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Missing in Action Member
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So we'll both be waiting, albeit for different reasons. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 19 2006, 07:12 PM Post #595 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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ID wedges into India, and the cleric is upset: Hindu cleric wants probe into allegations ice shrine in Kashmir doctored.
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 20 2006, 10:08 AM Post #596 |
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Missing in Action Member
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I wonder if it is circumcised? ![]() BTW - you have too much reading time on your hands! |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 20 2006, 10:43 AM Post #597 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Yeah, just read this, right on topic too... Semi-Intelligent Design]Semi-Intelligent Design
Actually read some others, but that one was intelligently designed, don't you think, with wit and charm! |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 20 2006, 01:01 PM Post #598 |
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Missing in Action Member
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But I can't grow a beard! |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 20 2006, 05:25 PM Post #599 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Teryt, it's interesting that you are waiting for ID to develop into something. Last night I finished reading Frank Sulloway's "Why Darwin Rejected Intelligent Design", in Intelligent Thought. Did you know that the prevailing theory at Darwin's time was creation science, specifically intelligent design? Darwin himself accepted it. If you read his Beagle journals you can see plainly he initially interpreted the evidence in light of the then prevailing theory. It wasn't until he returned and studied the evidence more closely, along with others, that he found creationist ID simply could not explain the evidence, and gradually pieced together natural selection as a new theory. Sulloway concludes, "In so doing, most of them [evolutionary biologists] realized, just as Darwin had, not only that intelligent design fails to explain anything that cannot be fully explained by natural selection but also--and far more damningly--that whatever this theory does claim to explain, it explains badly or not at all." So, what exactly are you waiting for? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 20 2006, 09:24 PM Post #600 |
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Missing in Action Member
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"Teryt, it's interesting that you are waiting for ID to develop into something." Oh, I already think it's something, it's you that don't. And we've already established that it doesn't seem to fit the current definition of science, so it's no wonder it got rejected. I'm just waiting for ID researchers to see if they can formulate their studies into something that the metaphysicals can more readily accept. (Then again, IDers are waiting for the evolutionists missing link.) (Too bad about Neanderthal DNA not matching up with human DNA, because that would have shown something in the missing link area. But Neanderthals being a seperate species actually goes towards the Gap Theory.) |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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1:28 PM Jul 11