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Dumbing Down Of America, 2
Topic Started: May 12 2006, 11:46 AM (5,632 Views)
DocInBird
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Actually, TeryT, there have been a number of people that said something very similar to that, both before and after the historical Jesus' life. Each of them had devout followers. Most of them did things that their followers called miracles.

The problem that many have with Christianity is the belief that god sent only one avatar to earth. Did god love humans less in this century than he did 2000 years ago? Did he care less for them 4000 years ago? You will find very few Hindis that will dispute that Jesus was an avatar, for example. They have no problem with that. But to say that he was the only avatar is a different matter.
--doc
Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America.
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TexasShadow
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Jane
Quote:
 
The problem that many have with Christianity is the belief that god sent only one avatar to earth. Did god love humans less in this century than he did 2000 years ago? Did he care less for them 4000 years ago? You will find very few Hindis that will dispute that Jesus was an avatar, for example. They have no problem with that. But to say that he was the only avatar is a different matter.



this goes to what I mean by our understanding of God evolving... or should be evolving.
history clearly shows us the development/evolution of religion..
only problem is:
our understanding is arrested at certain points in history when an agent of God appeared and gave us new food for thought because each person (or their disciples) declared "this is it, and there ain't no more".
Not sure what the eastern persuasions say, but they appear to hang onto the words of their ancient agents, without much alteration.
So... religion is stuck with what folks got 2000 to 4000 years ago.
This is not so bad...if you strip away a lot of the details and go for the gist of the messages, because the core of each seems (to me) to be about the same thing.
do unto others, etc.
equality, mutual respect, justice without bias, forgiveness, compassion, etc.
haven't read the koran, but I suspect those things are in there somewhere.

Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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DocInBird
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Oh Brad, <sigh> what is the entire 18th chapter of Leviticus about? It is rules for what? Therefore the context for verse 22 has to be what? In history, what celebration was going on that involved anal intercourse, at the time Leviticus was written?
--doc
Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
"do unto others, etc.
equality, mutual respect, justice without bias, forgiveness, compassion, etc."

Except each religion adds all sorts of its own spiritual and supernatural stuff, extraneous to what is more or less common sense like do unto others etc. No, not saying extraneous to you, but extraneous to social morals, since those morals exist without religion, and exist for the sake of the living here and now.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
Quote:
 
Except each religion adds all sorts of its own spiritual and supernatural stuff, extraneous to what is more or less common sense like do unto others etc. No, not saying extraneous to you, but extraneous to social morals.


yes, they do, because they are human and each group tends to "stamp" the religion with their personal, ethnic culture and heritage.

me... I like supernatural stuff and incense and candles and chanting and rhythm...I like solemnity and drama.
The magnetic appeal of the occult is clearly apparent with all the cr..p we see on tv and in the movies. Lacking it in churches, the folks are going for it in the theaters.

Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Ceremony carries a lot of tradition, dogma the rest. Change is not all always good. But if you don't bend you break.

This discussion has evolved.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
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This discussion has evolved.


no kidding. :floorrollin:
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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abradf2519
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cmoehle
Jun 13 2006, 12:16 PM
Ceremony carries a lot of tradition, dogma the rest. Change is not all always good. But if you don't bend you break.

This discussion has evolved.

No, it mutated. :floorrollin:
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Naturally. :P :floorrollin:
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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teryt
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Missing in Action Member
I'm outa here - this just ain't, well . . . scientific! :bolt:
My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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teryt
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OK, somebody has to get us back on track. How 'bout this?!

London Times: I’ve found God, says man who cracked the genome

Quote:
 
THE scientist who led the team that cracked the human genome is to publish a book explaining why he now believes in the existence of God and is convinced that miracles are real.
Francis Collins, the director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute, claims there is a rational basis for a creator and that scientific discoveries bring man “closer to God”.



His book, The Language of God, to be published in September, will reopen the age-old debate about the relationship between science and faith. “One of the great tragedies of our time is this impression that has been created that science and religion have to be at war,” said Collins, 56.

“I don’t see that as necessary at all and I think it is deeply disappointing that the shrill voices that occupy the extremes of this spectrum have dominated the stage for the past 20 years.”

For Collins, unravelling the human genome did not create a conflict in his mind. Instead, it allowed him to “glimpse at the workings of God”.

“When you make a breakthrough it is a moment of scientific exhilaration because you have been on this search and seem to have found it,” he said. “But it is also a moment where I at least feel closeness to the creator in the sense of having now perceived something that no human knew before but God knew all along.

“When you have for the first time in front of you this 3.1 billion-letter instruction book that conveys all kinds of information and all kinds of mystery about humankind, you can’t survey that going through page after page without a sense of awe. I can’t help but look at those pages and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God’s mind.”

Collins joins a line of scientists whose research deepened their belief in God. Isaac Newton, whose discovery of the laws of gravity reshaped our understanding of the universe, said: “This most beautiful system could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.”


I heard about this article on Dennis Prager's radio show today. Dennis made an interesting comment: "If one found a computer program with 3.1 billion [bits] in it, they would never say that it didn't have an intelligent designer!" :dance:


My Boast is Christ :pray:
Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then)
Recovering Perfectionist
Christian Hedonist

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Prager would find a 1-bit program indicative of God.

What scientific evidence does Collins provide? Any? Or does he leap from the edge of awe to God out of incredulity?


Einstein, who had no need of leaps of faith:

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.

And

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely t o comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
Quote:
 
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely t o comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.


all einstein did, in my opinion, was transfer his awe of an incorporeal creator (ID)
to that which the creator has made,
and there's nothing wrong with that.
we do it with a lot of things, admiring art or films or books or cars or good cooking... but we also honor the maker of them.
I don't think einstein really rejected the Creator. He rejected man's interpretation of the Creator, which is what a lot of people do because man is often mistaken and sometimes devious and cannot be trusted.
einstein chose to honor the things that are just what they are, without free will... and more honest, I suppose.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
If "man is often mistaken and sometimes devious and cannot be trusted" then how trust the concept of God. Perhaps God is just a projection of the awe we naturally feel.

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
--Einstein

And we saw this back a few months ago discussing atheistic morals:

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
--Einstein
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
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I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.


you have to remember this is spoken by a jewish man who immigrated from germany (the holocaust) I think the holocaust made a lot of jews reject the religion of their fathers/grandmothers, and I can understand why.
for that matter, anyone who suffers terrible tragedy, especially unjust tragedy, has a reasonable reason to reject the concept of a personal, benevolent Creator.

the only answer I have come up with comes from my own experience with tragedy.
you come to a point where you ask yourself:
am I in this for what I can get out of it materially (protection, immunization, eternal life?)
or am I in this for what I can get out of it spiritually (peace of mind, acceptance of life as it comes, faith/hope in better times to come, no grudges, no hate, no need for vengeance, no heartburn, etc)?
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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