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| Dumbing Down Of America, 2 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 12 2006, 11:46 AM (5,634 Views) | |
| teryt | Jun 12 2006, 04:32 PM Post #511 |
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My point here was whether when we say "Creationism" it includes the idea that the earth is 6,000 years old (young earth theory) or just to a creator. I think traditionally Creationism was supposed to embrace the young earth theory, but I could be wrong - and maybe that's not even the case any more. Chris - You made mention a while back about the "God of the gaps theory." There is a different idea called 'The gap theory" that pertains to the belief that there was a long chronological pause between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2, which accounts for the billions of years. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| teryt | Jun 12 2006, 04:40 PM Post #512 |
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Yes, welcome back Eric. I forgot that you went somewhere, and thought you just perhaps quit the discussion. Chris gave a fairly nice summary, albeit from his viewpoint (which probably will sufficeth for you - since you seem to largely hold his perspective too). It seems we've spent some considerable time just hammering out definitions whereby there could be some common language. I won't rehash it all here, as it's all back there - but it might be good to summarize. Problem is whoever attempts it will likely be biased with their own beliefs!
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My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 12 2006, 04:41 PM Post #513 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Ah, I see. Gap creationism comes from trying bring the Bible up to date with geologic strata and other evidence but stopping short of evolution. It undermines Genesis by intorducing extraneous material into the story, does it not? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 12 2006, 04:55 PM Post #514 |
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I have long held the Gap Theory of Genisis, since I was introduced to the 19th century work of JH Pember, "Earth's Earliest Ages" as a teenager. It is pretty exhausive book, citing perhaps hundreds of Biblical passages as support. It had many adhearants, including Scoffield who included it in his footnotes (new Scoffield Bibles have this removed). From memory, one of the main basis for this idea is that the word "was" was mistranslated in the passage, "1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2. Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep." Supposedly the word "was" would be better translated "became," hence "the earth became formless & empty." The basic idea is that God created everything, and then corruption was introduced (Lucifer) to the world & its pre-adamic beings. There were then various judgements upon this corrupted world until God created man to recover the earth & "subdue it." |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 12 2006, 05:04 PM Post #515 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Tosses original sin out with the bathwater doesn't it? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| DocInBird | Jun 12 2006, 05:37 PM Post #516 |
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Chris: Don't throw out the concept that Gods can mature and change. I can point out many cultures that accept this concept. If you want to spend the brain cells, think about this concept. Gods can evolve too. Brad: Your mention of bestiality was a complete non-sequitor. Now polygamy would have been appropriate. How many wives did Abraham have? Did Joseph and his brother (the traditional Jews vs Arabs explanation) both come from the same mother? I think you missed my point. If there was a "designer", he/she created a system where 10-12% of humans born as homosexuals. That is fact. There is no "cure". Even the archaic RC church has had to accept this. This is why they ammended to rules for priests to differentiate between being born as a homosexual and practicing homosexual acts. Jane: I like the way your mind works. Perhaps I can buy the coffee for the inevitable all-night discussion the next time I am in your state. Oh, I guess we should invite Chris too, so your hubby doesn't get worried, LOL. |
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--doc Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America. | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 12 2006, 05:39 PM Post #517 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Doc, I think I argued earlier about the evolution of religion. Because to me the concept of God arises out of religion, he too would naturally evolve. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| ngc1514 | Jun 12 2006, 05:48 PM Post #518 |
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I agree about the bias. What you overlook is that science is a tool that ignores (for the most part - most scientists ARE conservative and you better have a bloody good reason to bring in a new theory) bias. Oh, maybe not right away and maybe not for someone who has a lifetime invested - scientists are, above all, human - but eventually the data overcomes bias. What tools are the IDers using to accomplish the same thing? |
Eric
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| TexasShadow | Jun 12 2006, 05:49 PM Post #519 |
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Hi Doc while I don't agree that God can evolve, I certainly hold with man's understanding of God evolving.... as well it should. |
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| ngc1514 | Jun 12 2006, 05:53 PM Post #520 |
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And again with this belief crap! There is no need to believe in science - one either accepts the current paradigm or offers evidence to change it. Belief is only necessary where there is no data. I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow. I have a fairly high statistical certainty, based on 4.3 billion years of sunrises, that it will rise. Certainty approaches, but does not reach, 1.0 for it may not due to a possible multitude of astronomical disasters. Faith and belief are fine for religion, but they make awful science. |
Eric
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| teryt | Jun 12 2006, 05:56 PM Post #521 |
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Yes, although the God of the Bible does change His mind, if a human approaches Him & touches His heart in the right way. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| ngc1514 | Jun 12 2006, 05:57 PM Post #522 |
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Which was the whole basis of Jack Miles' fascinating book, "God: A Biography." The god of Genesis is not anything like the god of later books of the bible. Miles worked to write a conventional biography of god based on his character as shown in the bible. Interesting piece. |
Eric
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| teryt | Jun 12 2006, 05:58 PM Post #523 |
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No, because Adam went against God's wishes & ate of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good & evil. Therefore Adam took the poisen into him, and then passed it along to lucky us. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 12 2006, 06:07 PM Post #524 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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But what of all the evil that transpired before Adam: "corruption was introduced (Lucifer) to the world & its pre-adamic beings"? What was that about, God creating evil. I was going to say too that Gap Creationists have certainly contributed to the evolution of Christianity and in effect the Christian concept of God. Here is modernity overwhelming religion with science, and religion once again gives. It's been giving ground ever since Galileo Galilei. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 12 2006, 06:18 PM Post #525 |
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In the Bible, God created man to subdue the garden, and have dominion over the earth. As far as previous evil, this gets into the whole "free will" thing. Man had a free will, and choose to follow a being other than God, to their detriment. As far as religion evolving, yes, it can be looked at 2 ways. On one side it can be said that it has to adapt to real, physical, scientific realities that appear. On the other side it can be said that there just was a misunderstanding of scripture or concepts in the first place. For instance, once the world was proven to not be flat, biblical scholars realized there were no references in the scripture to indicate it was flat. If people had paid closer attention to scriptures, they perhaps wouldn't have come up with that notion in the 1st place. (But then again, I don't know of any place that states explicitly in the bible that the earth is round!) So in the absence of clearer info, we make up our own enduring paradigms. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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It seems we've spent some considerable time just hammering out definitions whereby there could be some common language. I won't rehash it all here, as it's all back there - but it might be good to summarize.




1:28 PM Jul 11