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| Dumbing Down Of America, 2 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 12 2006, 11:46 AM (5,636 Views) | |
| cmoehle | Jun 10 2006, 02:26 PM Post #481 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Teryt " Because this definition of science is "metaphysical naturalism" which, in my view, winds up sticking its head in the sand to ignore or even attack whatever doesn't fit the mold." Science is unconcerned with that. Unnaturalism, supernaturalism is another topic. Dont' you get it yet? You keep saying this, science agrees. So what? What is your point in repeating repeating repeating? "Like I said, "My dad can beat up your dad!" " Childish response. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 10 2006, 02:28 PM Post #482 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Teryt " I know this is just attacking Neo-Darwinism, and not directly supporting ID" Exactly. Can you tell us what ID is about and what it contributes? What's the problem? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 10 2006, 02:32 PM Post #483 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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" From CSC site - Pertains to our discussion well, & generally supports my position...." How so? What evidence does that present to support ID. Just more anti-science, anti-evolution, anti-Darwinism. Challenge, REPEATED, a simple one, still remains, if you all really support this ID stuff, it seems you would do more than attack science and evolution, it seems you'd show us what ID has to contribute. What does ID contribute to biology? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 10 2006, 03:45 PM Post #484 |
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Missing in Action Member
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If you'd just get it, if you'd get it I wouldn't have to keep repeating! What I give you, you can't (or won't) see. Childish response!? Nuh-huh, is not! LOL Oh lighten up! But really Chris, isn't this is all it comes down to - your "experts" vs. my "experts" doesn't it? It all reminds me a lot of the concept in "The Conflict of Visions" book, where the different visions can't even agree on what they disagree on, and in even having a common language. As a wise man once said, "First remove the log from your own eye." We all think the log is in the other person's eye (in this case it is in yours - JUST KIDDING! sorta LOL). :preach:
I do think this Discovery Institute CSC Website is about the best I've seen. I don't think I can do much better that this right now. There are lots of links & references to peer reviewed ID work, and it explains a good stance on science, public education, and many other related topics. It also has scientific refutation referrences to ID refutations, etc. So I will likely refer you there for any questions you might ask. Have you spent some time looking through this site with an open mind? Given enough time & research, maybe your "dad" & my "dad" will reach some kind of mutual & beneficial understanding. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 10 2006, 04:52 PM Post #485 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Teryt "But really Chris, isn't this is all it comes down to - your "experts" vs. my "experts" doesn't it?" You haven't presented any experts who tell us what ID is. You're just rephrasing my opinion v yours. Tell us what ID contributes, supply some evidence for that. " do think this Discovery Institute CSC Website is about the best I've seen. I don't think I can do much better that this right now." Point to somethign specifc. Stop throwing spagetti, hoping something will stick. "There are lots of links & references to peer reviewed ID work..." Why do you simply repeat? Do you ignore what I posted: Response
THere are no scientifically peer-reviewed ID papers. Period. teryt "Have you spent some time looking through this site with an open mind?" Have you? Tell us what you question of ID. Science is skeptical, be skeptical, what of ID do you question? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 10 2006, 07:10 PM Post #486 |
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Missing in Action Member
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I don't know what to question, because I don't know enough about it or evolution to be that intelligent on the subjects. I've given you the best references I have, and that's about all I can do at the momment. Sorry none of this satisfies you. Now to have a nice evening hike in 100 degree heat, and come back to have dinner. Let's see, what sounds good? Hmm, for some reason I seem to be in the mood for . . . spaghetti. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| teryt | Jun 10 2006, 07:21 PM Post #487 |
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Missing in Action Member
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I will say this makes better sense to me now. No I did not "ignore" it when you posted it, but I'm a little more conversant on this topic now - albeit minimally. I do wonder about the statement that ID receives generous funding. I wonder what it actually is. My impression is it's hard to get funding unless you line up with the metaphysical naturalist side of things. Anyway, you post your quotes, I post mine. Ain't this fun? You have not discredited ID one bit. (remember the "Two Vision" thing) I am getting myself an edubacation in process - thanks for your part! |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 11 2006, 07:54 AM Post #488 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Teryt "I don't know what to question, because I don't know enough about it or evolution to be that intelligent on the subjects." But you want ID in the biology classroom. " I've given you the best references I have, and that's about all I can do at the momment. Sorry none of this satisfies you." None of which provide any information on what ID is, beyond the teleological argument: some things seems so incredibly complex they must have been designed by a Designer. "I do wonder about the statement that ID receives generous funding. I wonder what it actually is. My impression is it's hard to get funding unless you line up with the metaphysical naturalist side of things." Religious sources. The Discovery Institute is a Christian organization, funded largely through the efforts of Phillip Johnson who started the ID movement. "Anyway, you post your quotes, I post mine. Ain't this fun?" Except there's a difference. I post references that directly respond to questions or challenges. For example, you challenged with a list of supposedly peer-reviewed papers, and I responded with a refutation of that. Asked to define ID, you post cut'n'pastes that attack evolution. "You have not discredited ID one bit. " Irreducible complexity--refuted. Design inference--refuted. ID's claim to peer-reviewed papers--discredited. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 11 2006, 09:15 AM Post #489 |
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Missing in Action Member
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Well, bottom line, there is more work for ID proponents to do, and this is something for the PhD's & scientists among us. I await the next book by Dembski which will likely counter this latest round of critisism. Of course that's how things work, being hammered out until there is something more (or less) tangible. Refutations will be produced to the refutations. In any case, I don't think ID is going away anytime soon. This has been an interesting & educational discussion. |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| cmoehle | Jun 11 2006, 09:27 AM Post #490 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I thought this biology approach an interesting contrast to ID's insistence on complexity: How Life Began: New Research Suggests Simple Approach:
It goes into a lot of detail. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| teryt | Jun 11 2006, 12:26 PM Post #491 |
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Missing in Action Member
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Wow! Now that's what I call a leap of faith! |
My Boast is Christ ![]() Soon to have MBA (I'll perhaps be smart then) Recovering Perfectionist Christian Hedonist | |
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| TexasShadow | Jun 11 2006, 06:25 PM Post #492 |
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Jane
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Yeah. POW! It just started up on it's own. And those molecules...they popped into existence on their own. And atoms and the elements...they just came out of nowhere! Science! His name is God.
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| cmoehle | Jun 11 2006, 07:08 PM Post #493 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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But, yeah! POW! God did it! Is perfectly acceptable. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| TexasShadow | Jun 11 2006, 07:12 PM Post #494 |
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Jane
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looks like an even match to me.
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| cmoehle | Jun 11 2006, 07:24 PM Post #495 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Even match? Between whether God did or didn't? That's very agnostic. Did you notice the tone used in the article? "Scientists try to imagine" and "New research suggests" and "not likely" and "Life could have started up" -- speculative, hesitant, hypothetical. I was wondering if you all who claim evolution is presented as absolute fact noticed that? And yours, "His name is God." Abosolute fact. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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1:28 PM Jul 11