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| Presidential Errors | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 19 2006, 07:48 PM (846 Views) | |
| cmoehle | Feb 19 2006, 07:48 PM Post #1 |
Chris - San Antonio TX
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Presidential Errors
What, is something missing? How would you rank them? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Photobitstream | Feb 19 2006, 08:00 PM Post #2 |
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Darron - Austin, TX
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#1: The Bush administration blowing the chance to bring the world together to fight terrorism, invading Iraq on cherry picked intelligence and completely bungling the aftermath of the invasion. #2: The Bush administration's inept and callous response to Hurricane Katrina. #3: The Bush administration's cynical dismantling of environmental regulations to benefit corporations. #4: The Bush administration's irresponsible deficit spending. #5: The Bush's administration's refusal to address our growing dependence on foreign oil. #6: The Bush administration's illegal wiretap program targeting U.S. citizens on U.S. soil. #7: The Bush administration bribing journalist to disseminate favorable stories. #8: The Bush administration outing a covert CIA officer for political revenge. #9: The Bush administration allowing U.S. military personnel to torture prisoners of war in violation of The Geneva Convention. #10: The Bush administration refusing to recognize, even actively arguing against, the threat Global Warming poses to our society and our very survival. |
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"Their chief weapon, however, was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe, until it was much too late, just how heartless and greedy they actually were." Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 20 2006, 05:54 AM Post #3 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Even those that stand a chance of being true do not measure up to first 10 listed. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cruiser | Feb 20 2006, 06:41 AM Post #4 |
Member
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Given enough time, the Bush policies will equal or surpass the mistakes of the other Presidents. The things that his administration have done, will haunt us for many years to come |
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) | |
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| justme | Feb 20 2006, 10:12 AM Post #5 |
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Seams like blind hatred to me-- or is it a symptom of the left wing proporganda and talking points. |
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| Photobitstream | Feb 20 2006, 10:24 AM Post #6 |
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Darron - Austin, TX
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You're right Chris. There is no way Bush's ill-advised War in Iraq, which has cost at least 100,000 lives, compares with Clinton's dalliance with an intern. At least Bush hasn't lied under oath. After all, which is the greater sin; lying under oath about an illicit affair or starting a war for no good reason? |
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"Their chief weapon, however, was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe, until it was much too late, just how heartless and greedy they actually were." Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions | |
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| Stoney | Feb 20 2006, 10:56 AM Post #7 |
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Huntsville, AL
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Maybe a little of both? 
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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| 5thwheeler | Feb 20 2006, 10:59 AM Post #8 |
Get the message?
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Huuummm... I'm not so sure about that, I would say it depends on whomever is doing the measuring. IMHO, the Bay of Pigs fiasco (inherited from Eisenhower) isn't in the same ball park with our abominable invasion of Iraq. |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers". 
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| 5thwheeler | Feb 20 2006, 11:06 AM Post #9 |
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Get the message?
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I wouldn't say "for no good reason", there are plenty of good reasons for our invasion of Iraq, unfortunately none of them were told to the American people. Keeping Americans in a constant state of fear is the most effective tactic GW and company have at their disposal and it works. |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| Lon Frank | Feb 20 2006, 11:07 AM Post #10 |
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Member
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Chris, my friend, you know I enjoy your debates. However, WHERE are you coming from with this thread? I can only assume you mistitled it, and it should have been 'Mistakes that damaged a President's reputation'. Otherwise, how could you ever compare your #10 with Darron's #10. Unless I missed something, no one died over the Monica debacle; no great shift of world power, no long lasting effects, except to Clinton's reputation and the embarassment of a country. Now, as to Darron and his listing, I admit that the Bush Administration is just too easy a target for the mistake finder. You know that I have to comment on one, however. Those who know a little about me, know that I've been a professional environmentalist all my adult life. My resume is rather heavy, with some very serious players. In the early 1990's I started preaching that mankind, and the U.S. in particular, must begin to evolve beyond our dependence on fossil fuels. In the late 90's, I started telling people that global warming was indeed a reality (regardless of the then current 'science' countering it, produced by oil compaies). Now, I'll make one more prediction: within the decade, we ALL will become environmentalists, whether we like it or not. As global warming eats into our comfort zone of greed, Americans will begin to realize the graveness of our errors in the last few years. When the wars are forgotten (aren't they aready?), when all the dead are buried, and all the costs are passed on to our children, the Bush administration will be remembered for it's greatest legacy: as the worst environmental disaster to befall America, and perhaps the world in modern times. But before we rush to carve into stone the 'mistakes' of Bush and gang, perhaps we should look in the mirror. This Administration has been able to do the things it has, only because we Americans have allowed it to. Perhaps we WANTED it to. Polar bears, who needs 'em? Give me cheap enough gas to run my Hummer, my Suburban, my Expedition. Spotted owls, give me a break! Cut the old growth forests and use them to balance the trade with China - we NEED the cheap cell phones and flip flops. Birds and amphibians disappearing, so what? We need food cheap enough to throw away. Strip the rules, make more pesticides, fertilizers, bigger farms, bigger profits - damn the oceans; what has a tidal zone or reef system done for me lately? I won't go into all the obvious details of global warming. You all know the sites where you can find facts, and you all know the people who will counteract them with 'faith based' decision-making. Just relax, and in ten years or so, when we realize the loss of wetlands, or realize it's too late to prevent the melting of the arctic ice cap, remember my foolish predition. Then decide if our current policies were a Bush mistake. |
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| roz | Feb 20 2006, 11:24 AM Post #11 |
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Roz - Texas
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Well said, Lon, according to the report on 60 minuets last night, its already too late. I applaud Darron's post also.....Wake up people to the destruction that is taking place in this administration. |
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| Lon Frank | Feb 20 2006, 11:34 AM Post #12 |
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Roz, I didn't see the 60 minutes report - I'm turning in a little early these days, since the bypass. Please tell me (and us) a little of what it said. A prime time American news report about the seriousness of global warming is incredibly rare. Also, I don't think it's altogether too late. Many cities and towns, particularly on the west coast, are embracing the reality of the situation. They are attempting to pass policies within their jurisdictions where they will begin to avert waste of energy, prevent greenhouse gasses, ect. It's a small beginning, but a beginning all the same. I seriously doubt that mainstream America will do the radical homework required to prevent widespread devistation, however. On edit, Roz, perhaps a new thread would be in order, should you wish to report on the 60 minutes show. I seem to have already hijacked this thread somewhat - my appologies, Chris. |
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| cmoehle | Feb 20 2006, 11:42 AM Post #13 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Darron, I'll answer you by answering Bill. All the reasons, including those justifying invasion, were given. Granted, the focus shifted over time, the White House's and ours as the grave threat faded. But all the reasons were given from the start. Generally, I also agree with Bill's "I would say it depends on whomever is doing the measuring." But measurements that are personal, and measurements that are partisan are argueable, debatable, and not to be assumed as facts just because you believe them. Lon, your argument about environment, if it proves true as you predict, even by your words, is not one against Bush, or any line of presidents, but against all of us: "only because we Americans have allowed it to"--and, if true, because we did it. Never no need to apologize. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cascade | Feb 20 2006, 11:49 AM Post #14 |
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Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse
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Lets see, global warming started in Jan. of 2001, and now it's too late. No sense in worring about anything moving that fast. 
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"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams | |
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| roz | Feb 20 2006, 12:02 PM Post #15 |
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Roz - Texas
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/16/...in1323169.shtml Here is the link, Lon. No, global warming did not just start on Jan 1 2001,
No one said it did. What I am saying is that we should all expect our leaders to do everything possible to slow global warming, not speed it up.
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