Should We "flunk" Our Free Trade Policy?

Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Pages:
1
2
3
4

Should We "flunk" Our Free Trade Policy?; Based on this performance i would.
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 17 2006, 08:11 PM (878 Views)
Stoney	Feb 18 2006, 09:46 PM Post #31
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	Corky One article I read suggests a 10% adjustment and this would be over time, but reduced increases rather than decreases. Some would say that it's happening now. The alternative is the same one that you and I would face if we continued to pile on credit card debt.
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 10:05 PM Post #32
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	Stoney: Quote: What's you guess? Will we pull it out? Does the US have the stuff left to turn things around? Let's see just what this Forum says about your questions: Of the last 20 serious threads to come up, they break down like this: 2 on economic and social problems facing the US, and possible solutions (counting this one) 10 on partisan Dem/Rep bashing 5 on the dangers of "furriners" invading/attacking, drag on society, whatever 3 on fundamentalist/creationist issues Not very encouraging. The link you provided shows just how bad crime is out there, but I cannot remember the last serious discussion on possible solutions. Americans just don't seem to care. I have a lot of faith in the basic strength of the US, but I see no indication that anyone is ready to tackle the REAL issues. On that basis, I'm not very optimistic.
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


Stoney	Feb 18 2006, 10:13 PM Post #33
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	I wish I could be more optimistic. We seem to be too fat and happy. The politicians have done a pretty good job of diverting our attention from the problems. I may be looking for some property up that way. It needs to be in the foothills of some wonderous mountains and next to big river that is dammed in ways to provide vast lakes surrounded by mountains. The summers should be warm but seldom hit 100 degrees with winters short with little snow and temperatures seldom going below 30 degrees. What can you recommend?
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 10:21 PM Post #34
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	Corky, I realize that you were joking (mostly) about the salary cuts to 30%, but that's what you're going to get anyway... BTW, the Cdn $ is 87� US today, vs 62� 3 years ago. It is now forecast to go over 90� in the next few months, and probably over $1.00 within two years. That rise in the Cdn$ from 62� to $1.00 works out to a drop of 61% in buying power for the US dollar in 5 years...
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 08:27 AM Post #35
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Bruce "And that lack of system is why you are where you are. And will continue the slide." The following begs to differ: USA, Canada, Western Europe, Asia: 14 Nations: Gross Domestic Product Per Capita from 1960 at Purchasing Power Parity. "Just when I think there's some hope for you, you lose it...." Arrogance convinces no one. "One coherent set of laws, guiding not blocking Free Enterprise so that it can expand without jumping through a million hoops is what's needed. Separate Regulations for each area are precisely what is NOT needed." Yes, called rule of law: Regulating government, not businesses or individuals, other than to enforce property rights and contracts. Certainly not tariffs and other protectionist measures. "And you can't be serious about removing all regulations! It would be far worse, returning you to the 1890's, with Union-Management wars, Stock Market crashes, untold misery for millions, no coordination where coordination is necessary to compete with other nations..." Those problems were created by overreaching laws. "Modern multinational corporations cannot function in your regionalized world. They would move out en masse..." Quite the opposite. Business moves where they find the greatest amount of economic freedom. They are leaving the US because it is losing that freedom for centralized big government control--uh, what you seem to be advocating, apparently on a global scale. "You think the mess you've got NOW is bad!" Indeed I do. We're over-regulated by centralized big government control. "...I think you'd better go back to the drawing board. " Or back to a time of greater economic freedom, times that built at least this nation if not yours. As an afterthought, it seems you are taking our current overreaching centralized big governmental system and its failures as an argument against what I advocate, a small limited governmental system dedicated to economic, personal and political freedoms. You are, in effect, arguing my point.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 08:34 AM Post #36
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Stoney Feb 18 2006, 08:19 PM Back to my pessimism. I'm afraid it would be harder to get the ball rolling than to come to agreement. Our regulations are a mess. One that I'm most familiar with is OSHA. Our government has taken the idea of safety from good common sense to something more complicated and convoluted than our tax system. We seem to relish making things so complicated that no one can understand them, say nothing about compliance. Exactly. Though I would call it a mess only because I dislike it. What it is is overreaching overregulation by a centralized authority. Don't get me started on the tax system, the perfect example of that.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 08:45 AM Post #37
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	corky52 Feb 18 2006, 10:12 PM Chris, "Yes, if we don't get our act together. Instead of, like so many others asking what government can do, we need to ask what we can do to be more competitive in the global market. " You miss the obvious and easy! Cut the workers pay and lower their standard of living to nearer the same levels as the competition! You willing to work for 30% of what you're making now? As a loyal American I would expect no less from you and the others still in the labor force. Ah, Corky, always good to see you toss in another plan for government regulation: "Cut the workers pay and lower their standard of living to nearer the same levels as the competition". That would only result in another government-induced disaster, no thanks! Let's look at reality folks. Is Outsourcing Becoming Outmoded? Quote: ...the surge in companies going to India, China, and Eastern Europe in search of very cheap brainpower may soon be coming to an end -- far sooner than anyone has anticipated. Why? Simply put, the wage gap between the U.S. and Asia is shrinking. Pay scales are rising fast in India and China for college-educated, English-speaking professionals. As U.S. and European companies send more of their call-center, design, accounting, medical-service, and legal-service business overseas, demand for folks to work at these centers has soared. And since these Indians and Chinese aren't anyone's fools, they've been demanding -- and getting -- increasingly higher compensation... Global labor arbitrage is hard at work narrowing the international wage gap among educated workers. That may not be terrific for companies hoping to save costs by sending service operations overseas. But it's a good thing for Indian, Chinese -- and American -- workers. Taking Advantage is a good read on the economic laws that already control this without intereference from government.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


corky52	Feb 19 2006, 08:54 AM Post #38
Member Posts: 4,100 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: June 21, 2004	Chris, No government moves needed, it's happening to you like it or not! Remove a few more government regs and I'll bring in the workers instead of going overseas, just be easier because they are already used to a lower standard of living. Your parity pay is biased on costs of living, living standards and a few other things that skew it to he!! and gone. You really want to live like you Indian or Paki counter parts, think a scooter would pull your trailer? Maybe if you're middle management you'd make enough to buy a small truck, be slow but might work. Bottom line is that to compete you're going to have to give up the life style, living and working at their level.



cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 08:58 AM Post #39
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	But it's not happening. Your seat-of-the-pants noneconomist view of the dire straits of our economy just doesn't gell with what the economy is doing nor with what economists see. Take the time to read the articles I provided links to.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


corky52	Feb 19 2006, 09:03 AM Post #40
Member Posts: 4,100 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: June 21, 2004	Chris, How much were you making four years ago and how much are you making today? Look up my last name on U of TX Plano and see what you find!



cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 09:08 AM Post #41
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Making more. Took a hit when the .com bubble burst, but have recovered and then some.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


bikemanb	Feb 19 2006, 09:47 AM Post #42
Liberal Conservative Posts: 3,259 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: June 6, 2004	Quote: Making more. Therein lies the problem, the majority of the middle class when adjusted for inflation aren't. To assume that all government has to do is stand out of the way and miracles will happen is as specious reasoning as on the other hand saying government is "the" cure. Part of the illogical of the current situation is that many that claim to be conservative/libertarian fail to be honest about how we got here: Why do we have an OSHA? Why do we have an EPA? Why do we have and EEOC? I would not even attempt to argue the fact that there have been considerable excesses of foolishness once these government agencies were created, but we are paying a price that a society that refuses to police itself pays when they allow others to do it for them. Government will have to have a place at the table, like it or not. What we need are Republicans and Democrats that will trash orthodoxy of "belief" and take new approaches. But it appeals too much to the bases to have senseless wars over BS subjects like abortion, gays, who Cheney shot lately, and was or wasn't Wille's lying about his hummer a impeachable offense. The failure of Liberalism wasn't trying to cure society�s ills; it was clinging to solutions that did not work. The failure of Conservativism is pretending that "if" these problems existed, a "free" society and market with no controls or regulation would cure them over time.
	Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin


cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 11:00 AM Post #43
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Economic views are not easily divided into liberal or conservative. More between those who put forth plans for making the world a better place, Marx a good example, Keynes another; and those who put forth descriptions and explanations of how it actually works, Adam Smith a good example, Hayek and Freidman others. Washington and U.S. Average Wage: 1980-2003: According to Wages and salaries at unprecedented low growth rate, we are seeing a recent decline in rate of growth of wages, accompanied by a counter-balancing increase in rate of growth of benefits:
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


bikemanb	Feb 19 2006, 12:27 PM Post #44
Liberal Conservative Posts: 3,259 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: June 6, 2004	--Inflation-adjusted median household income in 2000: $46,058 --Median household income in 2004: $44,389 [Historical Income Tables �Households, H-6 Table US Census]
	Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin


cmoehle	Feb 19 2006, 01:18 PM Post #45
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Per capita would include non-wage earners, no? Where's the Wage Growth? reports productivity up, unemployeement down, but wage increase not as great as would be expected under these circumstances. It all depends on the sector you work in. Housing, sales, tech, Wall Street are seeing better increases than police and firefighters, cooks, janitors, home health aids, hairdressers, and child-care workers), production occupations, and maintenance and repair occupations. Tech wages also depend on company. Lower temp wages are a big factor.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater

Create a free forum in seconds. Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2
3
4