Should We "flunk" Our Free Trade Policy?

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Should We "flunk" Our Free Trade Policy?; Based on this performance i would.
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 17 2006, 08:11 PM (879 Views)
TexasShadow	Feb 18 2006, 04:14 PM Post #16
Jane Posts: 5,534 Group: Members Member #18 Joined: June 26, 2004	The thing I can't understand about all this is: if we keep moving jobs out of this country, then who is going to buy the products that the other countries make instead of us? Doesn't this trend reduce us to third world status eventually?
	"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 04:44 PM Post #17
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	Very right, Jane. The US and Canada have to set up conditions that make it cheaper to manufacture stuff at home rather than importing them... Lower Taxes More modern factories Better infrastructure Better educated workforce More systematic structure of: .... Energy Production .... Pensions .... Health Care .... Safety Regulations .... Environmental Laws .... etc. so that Corporations can operate on an equal footing with other countries. It seems to me that the myriad regulations we force companies to comply with in both the US and much of Canada just makes the job of manufacturing far too difficult and expensive. In many fields, the actual cost of Labour is not that significant, and up-to-date factories would make the Labour costs even lower. I have heard the complaint that Unions won't allow this erosion of their "Job Security" to happen, but isn't 25% of the jobs (probably at 10% higher salary) better than losing the jobs entirely???
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


cmoehle	Feb 18 2006, 04:51 PM Post #18
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Bruce "It will take genuine study of the issues you mention, and not just instinctive reactions based on ideology, to turn things around." And who does that instinctive reaction propose should do this study? I'm willing, but somehow I don't think you mean individuals like me.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cmoehle	Feb 18 2006, 04:53 PM Post #19
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	TexasShadow Feb 18 2006, 05:14 PM The thing I can't understand about all this is: if we keep moving jobs out of this country, then who is going to buy the products that the other countries make instead of us? Doesn't this trend reduce us to third world status eventually? Yes, if we don't get our act together. Instead of, like so many others asking what government can do, we need to ask what we can do to be more competitive in the global market.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cmoehle	Feb 18 2006, 04:56 PM Post #20
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Bruce "It seems to me that the myriad regulations we force companies to comply with in both the US and much of Canada just makes the job of manufacturing far too difficult and expensive." Bingo! Solution is remove government regulations.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 05:06 PM Post #21
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	Quote: And who does that instinctive reaction propose should do this study? I'm willing, but somehow I don't think you mean individuals like me. Chris, you ARE quick! But I would think the study would HAVE to be done by a series of individuals like you, maybe in groups of 5-10 people per topic, with a rainbow of political views. A homogenous group is going to reach a conclusion much quicker, but not necessarily more accurately. Then make sure each individual is willing to live with whatever decision comes. Break the topic down into bite size pieces, see what's already been done around the world, test the best ideas in small areas. Believe it or not, it DOES work... I've been in some of those groups... But then, you've probably heard this plan before...
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


Stoney	Feb 18 2006, 05:08 PM Post #22
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	Quote: Bingo! Solution is remove government regulations. One of the solutions. As much as I hate to say it, I think we need government to get us on track to energy independence. But where is the will?
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


cmoehle	Feb 18 2006, 06:16 PM Post #23
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	brewster Feb 18 2006, 06:06 PM Quote: And who does that instinctive reaction propose should do this study? I'm willing, but somehow I don't think you mean individuals like me. Chris, you ARE quick! But I would think the study would HAVE to be done by a series of individuals like you, maybe in groups of 5-10 people per topic, with a rainbow of political views. A homogenous group is going to reach a conclusion much quicker, but not necessarily more accurately. Then make sure each individual is willing to live with whatever decision comes. Break the topic down into bite size pieces, see what's already been done around the world, test the best ideas in small areas. Believe it or not, it DOES work... I've been in some of those groups... But then, you've probably heard this plan before... Let me decide. Let my neighbor. And his. Etc. There's your homogenous study. "Then make sure each individual is willing to live with whatever decision comes." No. I reserve the right. "Break the topic down into bite size pieces, see what's already been done around the world, test the best ideas in small areas." And new ideas. And old. This is great! I only objection if you want to impose your area's "best" on mine.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 06:38 PM Post #24
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	Quote: "Then make sure each individual is willing to live with whatever decision comes." No. I reserve the right. "Break the topic down into bite size pieces, see what's already been done around the world, test the best ideas in small areas." And new ideas. And old. This is great! I only objection if you want to impose your area's "best" on mine. And that lack of system is why you are where you are. And will continue the slide. Remember my original concept: Quote: "It seems to me that the myriad regulations we force companies to comply with in both the US and much of Canada just makes the job of manufacturing far too difficult and expensive. "Bingo! Solution is remove government regulations." Just when I think there's some hope for you, you lose it.... The REGULATIONS aren't the problem, it's the MYRIAD!!! One coherent set of laws, guiding not blocking Free Enterprise so that it can expand without jumping through a million hoops is what's needed. Separate Regulations for each area are precisely what is NOT needed. And you can't be serious about removing all regulations! It would be far worse, returning you to the 1890's, with Union-Management wars, Stock Market crashes, untold misery for millions, no coordination where coordination is necessary to compete with other nations... Modern multinational corporations cannot function in your regionalized world. They would move out en masse... You think the mess you've got NOW is bad! On Edit: This does not mean that there cannot be "flavours", variations between states/provinces to suit local conditions. But if the "Best" you come up with cannot work in broad terms across local boundaries, I think you'd better go back to the drawing board.
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


Stoney	Feb 18 2006, 07:19 PM Post #25
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	Back to my pessimism. I'm afraid it would be harder to get the ball rolling than to come to agreement. Our regulations are a mess. One that I'm most familiar with is OSHA. Our government has taken the idea of safety from good common sense to something more complicated and convoluted than our tax system. We seem to relish making things so complicated that no one can understand them, say nothing about compliance.
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 07:41 PM Post #26
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	I admit it would be tough, Stoney. But it can be done.... We've done it provincially, and now we have a Federal government with similar views. We even have a population across Canada willing to give it a try. (With a HUGE mess of reservations, admittedly.) The only thing I'm not sure of - how important is having someone on top with the vision and the backbone to follow through??? Then again - what happens if you DON'T reorganize?
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


Stoney	Feb 18 2006, 08:25 PM Post #27
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	Maybe I should run for office and let some partisans make me out to be some monster. I'll nominate Bruce as an impartial board member to get things off the ground if he'll liberalize his views of gun control a bit. �Then again - what happens if you DON'T reorganize?� We can either depend on us coming around as we have often in the past, or we will loose. Since we don't seem to have the will to tackle problems before they become impossible, I'm afraid we're in for the latter.
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


brewster	Feb 18 2006, 08:56 PM Post #28
Winemaker Extraordinaire Posts: 3,467 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: June 21, 2004	Actually Stoney, since it seems that partisans ALWAYS make out the leader from the other side to be a monster, what's to lose? Ahh well, I guess I don't get onto the group that sets up the Gun Control Regulations.... :kickcan: You guys don't seem to mind all the murders anyway....
	My Favourite Campsite Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta


corky52	Feb 18 2006, 09:12 PM Post #29
Member Posts: 4,100 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: June 21, 2004	Chris, "Yes, if we don't get our act together. Instead of, like so many others asking what government can do, we need to ask what we can do to be more competitive in the global market. " You miss the obvious and easy! Cut the workers pay and lower their standard of living to nearer the same levels as the competition! You willing to work for 30% of what you're making now? As a loyal American I would expect no less from you and the others still in the labor force.



Stoney	Feb 18 2006, 09:37 PM Post #30
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	Bruce Take a look here where our Nation's Capital leads Norht America in violent crime. I think some of the issues that we discuss here have much more to do with crime rates. What's you guess? Will we pull it out? Does the US have the stuff left to turn things around?
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


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