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| A Return Of Conservatism? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 14 2006, 11:11 AM (164 Views) | |
| cmoehle | Feb 14 2006, 11:11 AM Post #1 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Every once in a while you get a glimpse, you get your hopes up, that conservatism has not died an even stranger death. At last, the conservatives stand up to be counted
Fat chance. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| brewster | Feb 14 2006, 02:21 PM Post #2 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Y'know, there wouldn't be so much distrust if you just convinced the government to spend less, or at least no more, than they bring in. If they have less money to spend, they can't afford to get into so much trouble... Idealistic??? |
My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 14 2006, 02:38 PM Post #3 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Some understand that. The idea of tax cuts is to force cuts in spending, not digging into debt. But people are generally in denial. One type tends to come from Democratics who preach it but seem blind to the consequences of liberal trust of govenment dependency. The other type tends to come from Republicans who preach against it but seem blind to the fact they're no more conservative than Democrats. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Photobitstream | Feb 14 2006, 05:09 PM Post #4 |
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Darron - Austin, TX
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Conservatism went out the window when Ronald Reagan moved into the White House. If there are any conservatives left in Washington I'd like to know who they are, and why they're hiding. |
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"Their chief weapon, however, was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe, until it was much too late, just how heartless and greedy they actually were." Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions | |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 14 2006, 10:06 PM Post #5 |
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Member
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Once the majority has a vested interest in feeding at the trough at taxpayers expense, there is little hope that much true conservatism will prevail. Even if the taxpayers don't like it they are outnumbered by the beneficiaries of government programs and handouts. |
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| cmoehle | Feb 15 2006, 06:29 AM Post #6 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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"Once the majority has a vested interest in feeding at the trough at taxpayers expense...." Problem is, the majority is feeding at the trough at their own expense. We're all familiar with 's “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money” And most are familiar with the urban legend of an Alexander Tyler writing in the 18th Century about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Stoney | Feb 15 2006, 07:15 AM Post #7 |
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Huntsville, AL
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It seems our time is about up and we may be well on our way. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 15 2006, 08:37 AM Post #8 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Not so sure we're on the river of no return. Earlier I alluded, rather cryptically, to a book, The Strange Death of American Liberalism. In it H.W. Brands chronicles the conservative ebb and liberal flow of American attitudes toward government. Always in times of national crisis--war, depression--the tide comes in to resolve that crisis, and always, afterward, the tide goes out. The exception to that seems to have been the nebulous thing we called the Cold War that extended liberalism through the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, before the tide again finally turned. This started with Goldwater's run for the presidency, was moved along by Reagan's social conservatism, and established by Contract with America's fiscal conservatism. Brands finished his book with high hopes as Bush took office. He didn't see the Terror War (now the Long War) coming. Nor did he know Bush was such a lefty. It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad. --James Madison |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cascade | Feb 15 2006, 10:51 AM Post #9 |
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Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse
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I am surprised that quote about democarcy can not be attributed to the real author. |
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"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 15 2006, 11:55 AM Post #10 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The Tyler quote. Happens. Someone quotes another, the other's book disappears. This was back in the 1700s. I referenced urban legends so as not to let someone distract from the general message of the quote. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| bikemanb | Feb 15 2006, 04:33 PM Post #11 |
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Liberal Conservative
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Remember, contrary to what many like to believe, we in the middle class are the largest benefactors of the public largess. The spending binge that has supported our growth the last 20 or so years and what many of our personal 401K’s have turned into, would have been much smaller, if that money had to be directed for the up keep of Mom and Dad like they did for their parents, if Uncle had not been providing that Social Security check and Medicare coverage. So who’s ox shall we gore, personally I think it should be yours. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 15 2006, 08:56 PM Post #12 |
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Member
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Are you sure about that? I get a social security check. At one time I added up my and my employers contribution for my working years. It was enough that if conservatively invested I would have more return than I'm getting under this system. Medicare is a voluntary program, and they do deduct premiums for it from your SS check. Actually from what I've seen in my own family, if your poor enough the state and federal government bends over backward to provide you with assistance, and asks very little in return. Much has been made of those working poor that don't have health insurance. But, if your poor enough you can get a nearly free ride on medical expenses and other perks. Here in MI you can get all kinds of assistance if your low income and your assetts are below $2000. The kicker is they don't count your car and house as assetts. So grandma and or grandpa can be heavily subsidized by the state including nursing home care, and still pass substantial assetts along to their heirs, while the taxpayers foot the bill. My 13 year old grand daughter just got a notice from the state the other day of a special program. If you have been poor enough to qualify for medicaid for two years or more, they are going to anti up for your college tuition. Sure that sounds like a nice thing to do. But guess who gets the bill, the taxpayers again. There are career beaurocrats that make their living finding ways of giving our money away. The sad thing is that if your irresonsible and have children you don't have the means to provide for properly, no problem. The government will take care of it for you. Meanwhile responsible people are limiting family size, working long hours scrimping and saving for college. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with the whole idea of discouraging personal responsibility for ones self and their offspring? |
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| cmoehle | Feb 16 2006, 04:12 PM Post #13 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Just a follow up by George Will, No Checks, Many Imbalances
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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