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| Life After Death | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2006, 05:02 PM (911 Views) | |
| TexasShadow | Feb 10 2006, 05:02 PM Post #1 |
Jane
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where does the notion come from? there is some evidence that ancient man believed in some kind of spiritual life after death...going back well over a hundred thousand years, I think. They've found flowers and small objects in neanderthal graves, and red ochre. it may be that first burials of men came about to prevent drawing carnivores or making "man eaters" out of carnivores.. or maybe it was love, pure and simple and a desire to protect one's beloved dead from being eaten. but the idea that some part of a person survived death..... is it just wishful thinking? or is it something in our nature....something that knows it is true? |
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| brewster | Feb 10 2006, 05:13 PM Post #2 |
Winemaker Extraordinaire
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I'm guessing here, Jane, but I think it was probably a combination of things: Wishful Thinking, both the individual who doesn't want the finality of death and friends/lovers who didn't want to lose someone close forever. The Experience of someone who seemed to be dead and who "came back to life" seemingly miraculously, after a severe coma-causing blow or some such. Most people with these sorts of "near-death" experiences come back telling of the feeling of moving to a great light... Whatever causes this feeling, it's very profound. For a primitive people believing that the world is ruled by capricious Gods, the thought that there's someone "over there" who can speak for the living must have been a very strong draw for early religions... |
 My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| Photobitstream | Feb 10 2006, 05:24 PM Post #3 |
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Darron - Austin, TX
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Dreams probably played a part in the belief in life after death. I've lost a few people who were very close to me, and in each case I dreamed about them, often, for months. These dreams seemed very real. So real that upon awakening I was momentarily disoriented, and had to remind myself the person was really gone and it was only a dream. |
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"Their chief weapon, however, was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe, until it was much too late, just how heartless and greedy they actually were." Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions | |
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| TexasShadow | Feb 10 2006, 05:52 PM Post #4 |
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Jane
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but here, it's not unreasonable to ask: was it "only" a dream, or were those persons communicating something to you from beyond the grave? we rational minded folks tend to discount psychic phenomena, crediting wishful thinking or trauma or just something chemical we don't understand, yet. I think a lot of it is chemical or imagination, but I think of this: even if wholly miraculous cures (bone growing back of itself, sight restored in dead eyes, etc) are originating in man's mind...as mind over matter.... where, oh where, does the power come from? and if this power does exist within us, lying dormant in most, perhaps it is powerful enough to take us beyond death, too. ?? |
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"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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| JohnMaier | Feb 10 2006, 06:03 PM Post #5 |
John -- Delhi NY Western.Catskill Mts.
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Poeple who report the "near death" experience often speak of "the light", or love, or peace... These people aren't dead, but they are as close as one can get and live to tell about it. In strictly evolutionary terms, death shouldn't have a pleasant component. There is, for an obvious reason, no means to pass along a "pleasant death gene." It is in some way the higher-order consciousness of humans that allows for this experience. Is it spiritual, or biological? Maybe, but it does transcend colture and religion, so it's more than cognitive. I tend to be research oriented, but there are too many unasked and unanswered questions about the nature of the universe to rule out, on the basis of observation alone, any possibilities that appear to be *preprogrammed* into human consciousness. Think of how a person would have reacted 500 years ago if he was told that: "all around are waves of energy that you can't see. Thousnads of frequencies and thousands of colors." Would he have believed you? JM |
 Wisdom never fights, it waits patiently, sees benefit in everything and envisions a future of abundance...knowing that all needs will be met at the right moment, in the right way. | |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 10 2006, 08:54 PM Post #6 |
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It has been pretty much proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when you die you pretty much stay dead from the physical perspective. As for the belief that a spiritual part of you lives on, that has yet to be proven. I suspect it was derived from wishful thinking of those who couldn't accept the finality of death. But, who knows anything is possible. I think we do live on after we are gone, in the sense that we pass our genes on to our children. And, we live on in the memories of those who loved us and carry those memories. The near death bright light experience has been explained away as characteristic of the sensory hallucinations of a dieing brain. |
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| Stoney | Feb 10 2006, 09:34 PM Post #7 |
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Huntsville, AL
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...caused by carbon dioxide flooding the brain is what a doctor told me. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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| TexasShadow | Feb 10 2006, 10:03 PM Post #8 |
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Jane
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re dying brain, yes, I'm aware of that, and have, myself, experienced the "tunnel-like" effect from just passing out. but this, nor even just wishful thinking, can fully explain how primitive man ever got the notion that there may be life on the other side of death. I mean, ancient man knew death as well as we do....knew about the physical side...and apparent finality of it. Doesn't seem to be any reason for him to think a man might continue in another form or dimension. I don't have any answers....just questions.. |
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"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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| PRT | Feb 10 2006, 10:17 PM Post #9 |
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I had a nun in college, who I would have followed to the ends of the earth - brilliant woman, wonderful teacher, incredible person - who had a near death experience when she was younger. I read for honors with her and for some reason she explained what she saw when she was "dying." It was the light, and she saw her fellow sisters gathered around her bed, and was told by whomever was at the end of the tunnel that is was not her time. She felt herself (her soul) return to her body and obviously recovered. That was the one and only time I ever heard someone explain firsthand the experience - even though I have read about it often enough - and I believed her. I believe in life after death anyway, but that's because of faith. I'll imagine I'll get a little scared if I don't see the welcoming light  |
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| Photobitstream | Feb 10 2006, 10:18 PM Post #10 |
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Darron - Austin, TX
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Tom added another piece to the puzzle. Combine wishful thinking with overwhelming dreams and near-death experiences, and you can go to belief in an afterlife. All of this is just speculation, of course. We've all seen things we cannot explain. Making up myths to explain the unexplainable does nothing helpful. As Einstein put it, the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine. Jane, I know the dreams I had were nothing more than dreams because there was nothing in them I did not already know. Now if any of those people came to me in a dream and gave some useful information, such as how to stop global warming or next week's winning lottery numbers, I might change my mind. |
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"Their chief weapon, however, was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe, until it was much too late, just how heartless and greedy they actually were." Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions | |
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| wolfgoddess | Feb 10 2006, 10:30 PM Post #11 |
Party Leader
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In respect to this, now how do I say this..to prove what I think/feel My Mom passed away in my home. The day before she died she held my hand tight. As I closed my eyes and lay my head by her I could see an image and a light so bright it was like looking into the sun. I can not explain nor forget the calm and beauty around it. I was told that she was sharing her passing with me as we were very close and I was her caregiver. As Mom passed I held her and say what you will but I felt her spirit pass through me. I could not cry, I felt so calm. So why/how did I see this light experience. My daughter has had many a close call to death. On one occasion as I was in the front of the ambulance, I thought I heard her say "Mom where are you " I replied " Honey, Mommy is right here hang on fight".. where is this going you ask. She arrived in emerg Code Blue. She could not talk, but I heard her. When she came off life supporta few days later she told me the strangest thing happened. She said " I seen Wade ( her best friend whom was killed ) I was walking toward him and it was so bright. He had his arms open to welcome me and I wanted to go to him. Then I heard your voice calling to me. I turned to follow your voice " Now maybe this is the wrong direction from the topic, but that is my experience in reference to deaths bright light. You may say gee she is  but I know what I seen and felt/lived.
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| Stoney | Feb 10 2006, 10:48 PM Post #12 |
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Huntsville, AL
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You're not crazy. I won't go into the story, but I had several experiences within a relatively short period of time that I can not attribute to coincidence. There are several similiar stories to yours. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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| PRT | Feb 10 2006, 11:16 PM Post #13 |
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Member
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My mother died with my dad there and also the pastor of their parish. He was praying whatever he was praying and felt her soul leave. This man taught me in high school, and again, he was not someone I would doubt. I do think it boils down to faith, and that I have no answer to. I don't do science. I'm quite happy the way I am. |
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| cmoehle | Feb 11 2006, 05:18 AM Post #14 |
Chris - San Antonio TX
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Another case for Pascal. Thing is when you say "life after death" you don't really mean life, but because language and logic fail you, you say it that way anyhow. Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Stoney | Feb 11 2006, 06:55 AM Post #15 |
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Huntsville, AL
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A statement of the obvious would be to say that the fear of death is a survival instinct. Maybe particularly for those who have had near death experiences and have given the concept of death a great deal of thought, there really isn't much to fear. In fact the process of death may cause some to welcome death. As for an after death experience, I can't imagine what it would be in terms of our life experience. I think it would be fun to have a couple of drinks with the likes of Thomas Jefferson, maybe Albert Einstein. What would be the fun for them? And wouldn't it at some point turn into not much more than discussing with your father about those five mile walks to school each day uphill both ways with ten feet of snow? I can envision spending an eternity with my wife and daughter with maybe the occasional visit to the parents. But what would we do for an eternity that would keep us stimulated? I don't know what happens after this life. I do feel quite confident that whatever it holds, it will not have any conscious regret. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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