Two War Dodgers To Be Sent Back To Us

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Two War Dodgers To Be Sent Back To Us; What is our responsibility?
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 8 2006, 03:41 PM (965 Views)
BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 06:14 PM Post #31
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	I did define a unjust war. And it is the, ‘Just war theory’, that the Catholic Church abides by.. From above The Just War Theory
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 06:15 PM Post #32
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Buddy, people are ignoring because it's tangental to the topic. No problem going off topic, just don't expect everyone to follow. Stoney, didn't Thoreau refuse to pay taxes as an act of civil disobedience against the, iirc, Spanish-American War?
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


Stoney	Feb 9 2006, 06:24 PM Post #33
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	BuddyIAm Feb 9 2006, 07:14 PM I did define a unjust war. And it is the, ‘Just war theory’, that the Catholic Church abides by.. From above The Just War Theory As did I.
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


Stoney	Feb 9 2006, 06:26 PM Post #34
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	cmoehle Feb 9 2006, 07:15 PM Buddy, people are ignoring because it's tangental to the topic. No problem going off topic, just don't expect everyone to follow. Stoney, didn't Thoreau refuse to pay taxes as an act of civil disobedience against the, iirc, Spanish-American War? I guess you are going to ask me to change my signiture because I don't agree with him on everything. :kickcan:
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 06:30 PM Post #35
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	No. Would you agree with him in that he accepted the responsibility and went to jail--only one night, iirc, but still, wasn't he accepting the rule of law?
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 06:36 PM Post #36
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Chris says: Buddy, people are ignoring because it's tangental to the topic. Buddy says: I don’t see that it is off topic.. We are asked how Canada should handle the case of a career soldier who has fled a country that has asked him to participate in a unjust war (according to the Catholic Church)…
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cascade	Feb 9 2006, 06:56 PM Post #37
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse Posts: 351 Group: Members Member #45 Joined: July 12, 2004	"But if you're not first right how do you attain that might? US history is a good example." I suppose it started with the first cave man wars. You don't have to be right, but you must have a better rock supply and superior aim, from there you make it right by writing a constitition, a bible, a koran, or whatever justifies your position and you get a lot of masses agreeing with you. But if we think back in history, how many of those nobel documents were used as toilet paper by other masses with a better rock supply and a superior aim, after which, they wrote their own nobel documents, you don't have to be right, just have the might.
	"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 07:06 PM Post #38
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Chicken or egg. Man outsmarted his early predators by hunting in groups.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cascade	Feb 9 2006, 07:09 PM Post #39
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse Posts: 351 Group: Members Member #45 Joined: July 12, 2004	And, we have advanced to what point?
	"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams


Stoney	Feb 9 2006, 07:09 PM Post #40
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	cmoehle Feb 9 2006, 07:30 PM No. Would you agree with him in that he accepted the responsibility and went to jail--only one night, iirc, but still, wasn't he accepting the rule of law? I guess your asking me to get back on topic. This is difficult for me. Having been in combat with those who did not want to be there (at least less so than most of us) I didn't feel comfortable. I'd be inclined to have them re-join their units and subject them to a General Court Martial. If I was on the court and other circumstances didn't come to play, I would probably give them a dishonorable discharge and send them home. As for Thoreau. He should have been made to pay the taxes and maybe a penalty. Although, I feel like civil disobedience at times.
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 07:21 PM Post #41
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	No, I found your statement interesting, re "rule of law. Citizens can not be allowed to make individual choices any more than they can about taxes. I think my taxes are unjust. But I don't have any right not to pay them." and commented on it. I would agree, generally, with that statement in a military context. But not in a civilian context. Certainly changing the law is preferable, but there are times civil disobedience is appropriate. Perhaps our definitions of rule of law differ, as I see it as a constraint on government rather than people, important to us so we the people know what to expect of our government. I'm as guilty as the next of going off topic. I find it natural, normal, in conversation. We pursue our interests.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 07:23 PM Post #42
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Lloyd "And, we have advanced to what point? ;)" To tie into another thread, there is no utopia.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 07:29 PM Post #43
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	You are all off topic. That’s okay with me.. The question before the Appeals court is NOT about the trooper…… But the question before the Canadian court is as to whether the immigration panel should have taken into evidence the facts concerning the legality of the War in Iraq… (the immigration panel refused to hear such evidence)
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cruiser	Feb 9 2006, 07:30 PM Post #44
Member Posts: 950 Group: Members Member #141 Joined: January 2, 2005	Stoney, you have a heart for those who chose to flee to another country. Prison time is just a punitive reaction from those in our administration who did not even serve. A dishonorable discharge is the most severe punishment a decent young man can have hanging over his head for the rest of his life. It is almost like a life sentence in prison.
	Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)


pentax	Feb 9 2006, 07:51 PM Post #45
Kamloops - BC Interior Posts: 6,649 Group: Members Member #16 Joined: June 21, 2004	BuddyIAm Feb 9 2006, 03:38 PM Everybody is avoiding my question...... One side of every war. Is fighting a UNJUST WAR. Would you punish the career soldier that refuses to fight for the unjust side. Send him back to a murderous dictator. and you are not listening. For every Up there is a Down, for every Hot there is a Cold, for every Black there is a White. Simply by using the term "UNJUST WAR", you are implying that there is a "JUST WAR" - Don't give me esoteric philosophy, SHOW ME ONE! What is the exception HERE? What makes THIS war so Damn special? Because its on the front of the stove right now? If you are truly against War, you'll object and protest to EVERY WAR.... I don't see you doing that. I repeat - UNLIKE VIETNAM, these guys weren't even forced* to join!* And if you ever get to the point where a soldier can desert and just "skate" without consequence.... well, I hope you don't have any Loved Ones fighting along side him. And, much as I could pass on him, if you really think that George Bush is a "murderous Dictator", then you need some fresh air and a long walk down Memory Lane. Try Pol Pot, Pinochet, Idi Amin, MaoTse Tung, Stalin, the Shah and yes, even Saddam himself! I'm starting to wonder if you're close to losin' it, Buddy - Honest-to-Christ, I AM.
	(thumbnail) "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"


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