Two War Dodgers To Be Sent Back To Us

Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Pages:
1
2
3
4
5

Two War Dodgers To Be Sent Back To Us; What is our responsibility?
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 8 2006, 03:41 PM (966 Views)
pentax	Feb 9 2006, 01:09 AM Post #16
Kamloops - BC Interior Posts: 6,649 Group: Members Member #16 Joined: June 21, 2004	What is a "Just War", God forbid? When does war not take innocent lives? What religious beliefs against war can be valid for one war, and not for another? You are something - or you are not - I respect both..... I cannot understand a "sometimes" pacifist, any more than a "weekend-warrior". Perhaps they should never have joined in the first place; I would be the first to respect that. Muhommed Ali knew there would be a price to pay, and he courageously paid that price.... it cost him the best, most valuable years of his career. However, he chose his path and took his lumps - my hat will always be off to him. But a "fair-weather" soldier is of no use to anyone at all - he can't be relied on to be there for his team-mates - and he can't be trusted as a true pacifist, if "it all depends"....
	(thumbnail) "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 01:38 AM Post #17
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	The Just War Theory LINK Some would say that the winner always has fought a just war.. I don�t think that is true.. Japan was a winner for over a decade.. German almost as long� The taking of innocent lives in a Just War is acceptable and expected.. Lining people up and feeding them into gas chambers is not� It is not a question of whether you are a warrior or not. It is a question if you will follow blindly into a unjust and evil war� Remember the, I only was following order excuses.. American Troops are bound by the military code, to refuse unjust and illegal orders� Do you condemn those that refused to fire the crematoriums and feed the gas chambers. To the same extent as those who obey and butchered millions..
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 05:35 AM Post #18
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Good point about "fair-weather" soldiers, Mur. Similar to sunshine patriots who are for war when their party is in office but were against it when the opposition held power.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 10:22 AM Post #19
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	But you failed to answer my question. One side of every war. Is fighting a UNJUST WAR. Would you punish the career soldier that refuses to fight for the unjust side. Send him back to a murderous dictator. With regards to the Iraq war.. The Catholic church has said We are involved in a unjust war.. That is a fact that cannot be denied..
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cascade	Feb 9 2006, 02:20 PM Post #20
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse Posts: 351 Group: Members Member #45 Joined: July 12, 2004	IMO, it's not about just or unjust war, it's about proximity. At some point in time, past, present or future, your unjust war, will become justified. The results will be the same, the taking of life, just a fact of human nature.
	"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 02:34 PM Post #21
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Cascade says: At some point in time, past, present or future, your unjust war, will become justified. Buddy says: Only if you win.. I don�t see Germany or Japan ever receiving accolades.. Or the U.S. receiving the Good Housekeeping seal of approval for our war in V.N. Even with the events as they are today. Somewhat justifying Russia�s Attack on Afghanistan. I don�t think the world will ever approve of their fighting there..
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cascade	Feb 9 2006, 02:52 PM Post #22
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse Posts: 351 Group: Members Member #45 Joined: July 12, 2004	I have long thought that might makes right. The History books and Nobel douments are written by the victors.
	"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 03:14 PM Post #23
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Yep
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


Justine	Feb 9 2006, 03:38 PM Post #24
Member Posts: 524 Group: Members Member #100 Joined: October 6, 2004	I read an article today that said the American deserter had filed for consiencense( sp?) objector status, which would have left him in the service, but in non combat duties. He was refused, he was sent to Afganistan where when questioned ( this is where his application was reviewed) said that he did not want to fight or be in combat, BUT, if the airbase he was at was attacked he would of course defend it. On that basis his request was denied as he said he would fight, if it was to defend the base. Seems like he had taken earlier steps to extridite himself from the service.



cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 04:31 PM Post #25
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	"I have long thought that might makes right." But if you're not first right how do you attain that might? US history is a good example.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


feddoc	Feb 9 2006, 05:02 PM Post #26
Member Posts: 371 Group: Members Member #38 Joined: July 9, 2004	Justine Feb 8 2006, 10:42 PM Personally I think it depends on the type of punishment the States would give them. If they would get a harsh sentence then I think they should be allowed to stay here and serve a less harsh sentence. I think 6-12 months sounds about right. They weren't selling State secrets, they just chickened out, and quite frankly why not, I wouldn't go to war , I don't want to get killed. I am not some macho go fight type of person. I DO think they should get some sort of punishment as they were not drafted, but volunteerily joined the services, to reap the benefits no doubt of free education and medical care, so, they DO owe their country back pay too! Their pay has been stopped long ago. You are right, they should get some sort of punishment.....since the crimes were on our soil, let us decide how to punish them.



cruiser	Feb 9 2006, 05:17 PM Post #27
Member Posts: 950 Group: Members Member #141 Joined: January 2, 2005	Under this administration they will throw the book at them. They will make an example of them because of the many who have taken a hike to avoid this rotten war. It will not be prosecution, but will be persecution. Because the U.S. is a democratic country with a court system that's equipped to deal with military deserters, Hinzman and Hughey could face prosecution, but not persecution, if returned to the U.S., the immigration panel ruled.
	Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)


CalRed	Feb 9 2006, 05:30 PM Post #28
Member Posts: 1,087 Group: Members Member #128 Joined: November 30, 2004	Even after Jimmy Carter pardoned all those "chickens" who went to Canada to avoid the draft, he would not pardon those who deserted. I'm sure he wanted to but he would have probably been impeached. A deserter in war time can be shot. I don't advocate shooting those two who fled but nonetheless they are traitors and should receive a very severe penalty. Too bad those who have died defending their country couldn't decide what to do with them. 20 years in prison should be enough for them.
	Something instead of Nothing? "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." Alan Sandage


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 05:38 PM Post #29
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Chris says: But if you're not first right how do you attain that might? US history is a good example Buddy says History is full of mighty dictators and those that plunder the world.. Everybody is avoiding my question...... One side of every war. Is fighting a UNJUST WAR. Would you punish the career soldier that refuses to fight for the unjust side. Send him back to a murderous dictator. With regards to the Iraq war.. The Catholic church has said We are involved in a unjust war.. That is a fact that cannot be denied..
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


Stoney	Feb 9 2006, 06:10 PM Post #30
Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,771 Group: Members Member #216 Joined: October 22, 2005	Buddy, you've got to define �unjust war.� The only way to define it and survive as a country is by rule of law. Citizens can not be allowed to make individual choices any more than they can about taxes. I think my taxes are unjust. But I don't have any right not to pay them.
	The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau


Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2
3
4
5