Budget?

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Budget?
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 8 2006, 12:36 PM (494 Views)
cmoehle	Feb 8 2006, 08:26 PM Post #16
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	The other left!
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


campingken	Feb 8 2006, 08:31 PM Post #17
Member Posts: 1,332 Group: Members Member #56 Joined: July 18, 2004	We borrow 2 billion a day, mostly from Red China, to run our country, Ameicans are saving a MINUS !/2% of their income (the lowest rate since 1933), defined retirements are a thing of the past, 2 out of the 3 companies that make American cars are heading for Chapter 9, young people aren't enlisting to fight in our forever war, and medical costs are over the top. The good news is our President says that if we make his tax cuts permanent all of the above won't matter. Ken



BuddyIAm	Feb 8 2006, 08:52 PM Post #18
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Didn�t take me long to find a couple of lefties� Then of the top of my head�
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cmoehle	Feb 8 2006, 08:54 PM Post #19
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	The calculation is tax cuts spur the economy, increasing growth and thereby revenue, but requires spending cuts to reduce even a single debt when we're being saddled with twins.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cascade	Feb 8 2006, 08:57 PM Post #20
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse Posts: 351 Group: Members Member #45 Joined: July 12, 2004	I think we need to give more money to the Government so they can become bigger to handel these large problems.
	"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams


BuddyIAm	Feb 8 2006, 09:18 PM Post #21
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Chris says: The calculation is tax cuts spur the economy, Buddy says: Chris, History has proven that not to be true.. The increase in revenue has NEVER exceeded inflation by a significant amount.. Yet tax increases.. Coupled with increased spending on infrastructure. Has ALWAYS INCREASED REVENUE, And resulted in a economy that grows and prospers for years..� Stop talking calculations and talk realty. Of course.. If you get more money in than you spend. There will be a reduction in debt. But that does not translate directly to a improved economy. Money socked away in the Bahamas or invested over seas. Does nothing for the workforce in America.. Cascade says: I think we need to give more money to the Government so they can become bigger to handle these large problems. Buddy says: I don�t want a bigger Government.. I wan a better America.. Governed by officials dedicated to investing in America. Not Multination Corporations. A Government that will insure that our infrastructure rises from the 3rd world status we have fallen into.. Go out and look at your roads, Airlines, Railroads, Steel plants, Utilities, and Energy supplies. How has the tax cuts improved these main stays of our economy??????
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cmoehle	Feb 8 2006, 09:43 PM Post #22
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Buddy, as is typical, you take half of what is said out of context and argue that. But let's go with your "tax cuts spur the economy"..."History has proven that not to be true.. The increase in revenue has NEVER exceeded inflation by a significant amount.." Back it up with some numbers please. Keep in mind you went with an absolute again, you said NEVER. Now let's see you prove that.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


pentax	Feb 8 2006, 10:15 PM Post #23
Kamloops - BC Interior Posts: 6,649 Group: Members Member #16 Joined: June 21, 2004	awww, c'mon now, chris - you know he really meant "sort-of never"....
	(thumbnail) "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"


BuddyIAm	Feb 8 2006, 10:26 PM Post #24
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Pent read and weep... Buddy says: This following tax increases.. Federal Tax Revenue Surges By John M. Berry Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, December 20 1997; Page C02 Tax revenue continued to pour into federal government coffers in October and November, the first two months of fiscal 1998, with total receipts up more than 10 percent compared with the same period a year ago, the Treasury reported yesterday. With government spending going up much more slowly than receipts, the federal deficit for the two months slipped to $53.3 billion from $77.7 billion last year. While both the Office of Management and Budget and the Congressional Budget Office are still working on their projections for the fiscal 1998 budget, a number of private forecasters, even before the latest figures were released, began predicting the government will end the year in the black for the first time since a tiny $3.2 billion surplus was recorded in 1969. Link Buddy continues.. As far as the Bush years.. I have never seen a Report that listed NON REFUNDABLE TAX REVENUE�. In other words. Revenue minus preordained special tax credits.. But here is a list of a few with a link: This is in 2005 dollars 2000 2025 .5 2001 1991.4 Loss of 34 bilion 2002 1853.4 Loss of 150 billion 2003 1782.5 Loss of 260 billion 2004 1880.3 Loss of 140 billion 2005 2153.9 Gain of 125 billion Bush regime Total loss 459 billion Link
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cmoehle	Feb 8 2006, 10:35 PM Post #25
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	Buddy, you've changed the topic altogether. Not deficits, the result of overspending--the second half of my earlier point, that you chose to ignore. Show us, if you can, that tax cuts have NEVER spurred the economy and in turn resulted in greater revenues.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


BuddyIAm	Feb 8 2006, 10:54 PM Post #26
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Chris I did not change the subject.. I listed revenues in 2005 dollars.. I will try to make the list clearer.. This is in 2005 dollars Year Revenue 2000 2025 .5 2001 1991.4 2002 1853.4 2003 1782.5 2004 1880.3 2005 2153.9 This is in 2005 dollars Year Loss from 2000 revenue 2000 2001 Loss of 34 billion 2002 Loss of 150 billion 2003 Loss of 260 billion 2004 Loss of 140 billion 2005 Gain of 125 billion Bush regime Total loss 459 billion In the Absence of the Bush tax cuts.. Total revenues were headed to over 2300 billion in 2001. Also notice.. Although the Bush regime states that the economy ws headed toward a recession prior to his taking office.. There was a 190 billion dollar increase in revenue during Clintons last year. And a 34 billion dollar loss during Bush�s first year.. Clearly the recession did not take place until after the talks of a Bush tax cut� in March 2001 If you look back at the link� you will see the only period of time in which there was a revenue loss. Was the period following a Tax cut��
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


BuddyIAm	Feb 9 2006, 12:01 AM Post #27
Member Posts: 3,214 Group: Members Member #97 Joined: September 27, 2004	Link The records for percentage of potential gross domestic product Budget deficit are as follows.. The worst years since 1962 were always under a Republican president�. Reagan -5.6 -5.1 -5.0 Bush Sr.. -4.4 -4.5 Bush Jr. -3.4 -3.5 Clinton�s worst year was 1993 at -3.8 it improved every year until it reach a high of +2.5 in 2000. 2001 was a positive year for Bush Jr +1.3. From there it has declined to the negative territory every year..
	"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 05:13 AM Post #28
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	You're still talking surplus vs deficit. Subject is simply revenue. Show us that with tax cuts revenue never went up. NEVER. That was your claim, never, against my claim that is the calculation, iow, it can.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cmoehle	Feb 9 2006, 06:07 AM Post #29
Chris - San Antonio TX Posts: 36,959 Group: Members Member #1 Joined: June 6, 2004	I had a dozen other links ready, but this just came out this morning. Those @%# tax cuts! Quote: ...President John F. Kennedy -- a Democrat -- also supported tax cuts. In 1964, President Lyndon Johnson signed Kennedy's tax cut, reducing the top marginal tax rate from 91 percent to 70 percent. Tax revenues increased from $94 billion in 1961 to $153 billion in 1968, an increase of 63 percent, or a 33 percent increase if adjusted for inflation. ... President Ronald Reagan lowered the top marginal tax rate from 70 percent to 28 percent, overseeing a doubling of federal income tax revenues.... It can and has worked as calculated. Does it always? Quote: ...Under President George W. Bush, net federal receipts went from $1.99 trillion in 2001 to $2.15 trillion in 2005, an 8 percent increase, although when adjusted for inflation, receipts show a negligible decrease. Can it result in greater deficits? Of course, (continuing the above quote) for Bush: Quote: Deficits, however, increased. That's because Congress kept spending, and the president failed to use his veto. And just wait until the Baby Boomer generation -- some 75 million strong -- retires, placing additional demands on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Excluding defense, homeland and national security, spending under Bush increased at a rate faster than any president since Johnson. Bush signed the most expensive farm bill ever -- some $190 billion over 10 years. Under this president, federal education spending -- including No Child Left Behind -- has more than doubled, from almost $36 billion in 2001, to over $72 billion in 2005. Bush signed the prescription benefit bill for seniors -- estimated to cost $1.2 trillion dollars or more over the next decade -- definitely the largest expansion of a social program since Medicare was established by the Social Security Act Amendments of 1965. But that takes us back to my earlier question, why are you complaining about such exorbitant spending on liberal policies? Your solution to every issue is bigger government. Bush gives you exactly that. Is it (as the article concludes): Quote: Gross's persistent questioning of the Bush tax cuts -- and her indifference toward spending -- makes this statement: It's not your money, and we can spend it better. Then-President Clinton, in giving a speech about the then-surplus, said, "We could give it all back to you and hope you spend it right. . . . But . . . if you don't spend it right, here's what's going to happen . . . " Just remember, it's not your money.
	Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater


cascade	Feb 9 2006, 09:25 AM Post #30
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse Posts: 351 Group: Members Member #45 Joined: July 12, 2004	So.......elections are comming up, who do you vote for? The party that put us in a huge deficit (spending entitlements), but lowerd taxes, or the party that will get us out of the deficit with large tax increases, and continue spending, entitlements. Neither party is willing to stop or roll back spending, the voter is left with the choice of which eye is going to be poked.
	"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams

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