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Israeli Youths Reject Army Call-Up
Topic Started: 13 Oct 2009, 11:40 AM (689 Views)
KamikazeCow
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More than 80 Israeli students have announced their refusal to serve in the Israeli military because of what they call their nation's track-record of oppression in the occupied territories.

The conscientious objectors issued a letter declaring their determination not to join up during a news conference in Tel Aviv in protest against the government's policies towards Gaza and the West Bank.

"We cannot ignore the truth - the occupation is a violent, racist, inhumane, illegal, undemocratic, immoral and an extreme condition that presents a mortal danger to both peoples," the letter read.

"We, who were educated on the values of liberty, justice, honesty and peace, cannot accept it."

It was signed by 84 high school students.

Four of the signatories at the news conference on Monday said they were aware that refusing to enlist would land them in jail, but noted that they were acting out of loyalty to their values and those of the society they live in.

"We were born into the reality of the occupation and many in our generation see it as something 'natural'," Or Ben-David, a 19-year-old from Jerusalem, said.

Ben-David is legally obliged to join the army at the beginning of November.

"But I opened my eyes to what was around me and became critical of the Israeli society. I visited in the West Bank and met with Palestinians, it changed my view of things."

Jail sentence

When asked whether she would do a different kind of public service, another refusenik - Amelia Marcovich - said she considered public service and volunteering to be a lifelong activity and not just something that you do for two or three years because you have to.

"I hope that sitting in jail won't dampen my desire to contribute to the society and that I'll keep on volunteering afterward," she said.

Another objector, Effie Brenner, a student, said he is refusing against his parent's wishes. "My parents reacted really badly when I told them I wouldn't join the army. They threatened to kick me out of house," he said.

Nevertheless, he said it was easier to do three years of military service than to stand up and make a statement and even sit in prison for what you believe in.

"One of the reasons I refuse to join is because I want the Palestinians to know that not all Israelis are in favour of the occupation and that some people are willing to make a sacrifice to end it," Brenner said.

"Palestinians who have heard of what I'm doing have expressed thanks and encouragement."

Brenner said the group had already employed legal representation and they were ready to face the military trials awaiting them.

Similar letters have been publicised over the years by high school seniors slated to enlist ever since the first one was written in 1979.


it lights the dark of this prison cell
it thunders forth its might
it is the undauntable thought my friend
that thought that says im right

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleea...51115553.htmlas
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Benthamus
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People refuse conscription all the time. It's only news cause it's Israel. Maybe if they lived through the 1948, 1967 or 1973 wars their thoughts on the issue would be quite different.
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Raoul LeGrand
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Anyway, I still say good for them.
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Wraith
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Yeah, if the whole generation of students say that, then they'll be singing a different tune when the Arabs come rolling in. Probably with a harp and a soprano voice.

Not surprising of an article considering it's from Al-Jazeera.
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Ryan
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Good for them.

We actually had two Israeli girls who fought conscription and went to jail over it come and speak at our campus. I was sad I missed them. :(
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Benthamus
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They were probably ugly or fat or dole bludging, soap avoiding, pot smoking hippy vegetarian kook. All the hot Israeli chicks sign up, the internet says so. :P
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Alkeni Synair
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Wraith
Oct 13 2009, 06:44 PM
Yeah, if the whole generation of students say that, then they'll be singing a different tune when the Arabs come rolling in. Probably with a harp and a soprano voice.

Not surprising of an article considering it's from Al-Jazeera.

................so....peace is undesireable?
Work in progress.
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KamikazeCow
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Wraith
Oct 13 2009, 05:44 PM
Not surprising of an article considering it's from Al-Jazeera.

Something wrong with that?
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Ryan
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Benthamus
Oct 13 2009, 07:30 PM
They were probably ugly or fat or dole bludging, soap avoiding, pot smoking hippy vegetarian kook. All the hot Israeli chicks sign up, the internet says so. :P

They were hot! :P

And yeah Wraith, I second Reian and Cow's objections...
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KamikazeCow
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Benthamus
Oct 13 2009, 05:16 PM
People refuse conscription all the time. It's only news cause it's Israel.

Well, yeah. And it's good news.
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Wraith
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Reian Alexander
Oct 14 2009, 06:18 AM
Wraith
Oct 13 2009, 06:44 PM
Yeah, if the whole generation of students say that, then they'll be singing a different tune when the Arabs come rolling in. Probably with a harp and a soprano voice.

Not surprising of an article considering it's from Al-Jazeera.

................so....peace is undesireable?

Peace is impossible, and liberals can't get their heads out of their clouds and back down to earth to understand that. Obama can run around making heartwarming speeches about nuclear disarmament and world peace that somehow warrant a Nobel Prize. Students can decide they're too good for their rather free country country and blow off the law. A few hippies can decide that they would rather destroy their health through drugs and silly songs in protest against the injustices of war.

But NONE of this ever, or will ever, change the nature of a human being. Whenever any person, nation, or race turns the other cheek or extends the hand of friendship, a few people may kiss it or shake it, but someone will slap it or cut it off. I cannot understand how people can advocate world peace and disarmament, leaving themselves defenseless, when we have human beings in this world.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. North Korea. Al-Qaeda. Hezbollah and Hamas, to put it closer to Israel. The Nazis and Neo-Nazis, to hit Cow's nerve.

It is hypocritical to deny the necessity of armies, weapons, and war. With it, millions die. Without it, billions die. Your choice.
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Lundymaphone
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Well I would have to agree with Wraith on the basic concept that peace is unlikely (peace as in lack of organized violence). I would however argue that peace (as in inter-state war) is not impossible, although given the current state of affairs it is for all intents and purposes impossible.

Wraith made a good point in that you can open the hand of friendship and work towards a goal of peace and cooperation, some will genuinely accept it, most will accept it because of the principal, but so long as one person rejects your cause disarmament simply means that you chose short-term peace over survival. The "bad guys" (ie those you disagree with and have little or no common ground) simply have no interest in long-term peace.

Citizen revolts and citizen armies can stop a force from occupying your land, but they don't stop bombs from dropping or missiles from taking out important targets.

The most effective way to go about it is to slowly reduce certain arms, land-mines, chemical weapons, and even nuclear weapons have been successfully reduced in warfare (at least in the western world). And before anyone says anything, take a look at nuclear weapon stockpiles over the last 30 years and tell me there has not been progress in that regard.

Peace is a noble goal, but unilateral peace simply will result in destruction., or worse.
in pace, ut sapiens, aptarit idonea bello
In peace, like a wise man, he appropriately prepares for war
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Ryan
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Wraith
Oct 14 2009, 03:41 PM
Reian Alexander
Oct 14 2009, 06:18 AM
Wraith
Oct 13 2009, 06:44 PM
Yeah, if the whole generation of students say that, then they'll be singing a different tune when the Arabs come rolling in. Probably with a harp and a soprano voice.

Not surprising of an article considering it's from Al-Jazeera.

................so....peace is undesireable?

Peace is impossible, and liberals can't get their heads out of their clouds and back down to earth to understand that. Obama can run around making heartwarming speeches about nuclear disarmament and world peace that somehow warrant a Nobel Prize. Students can decide they're too good for their rather free country country and blow off the law. A few hippies can decide that they would rather destroy their health through drugs and silly songs in protest against the injustices of war.

But NONE of this ever, or will ever, change the nature of a human being. Whenever any person, nation, or race turns the other cheek or extends the hand of friendship, a few people may kiss it or shake it, but someone will slap it or cut it off. I cannot understand how people can advocate world peace and disarmament, leaving themselves defenseless, when we have human beings in this world.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. North Korea. Al-Qaeda. Hezbollah and Hamas, to put it closer to Israel. The Nazis and Neo-Nazis, to hit Cow's nerve.

It is hypocritical to deny the necessity of armies, weapons, and war. With it, millions die. Without it, billions die. Your choice.

Without the State, tens die. ^_^
George Mason University '15
Ph.D Economics


Sporder.net - Complex Problems, Emergent Solutions

COUNTRIES:
2012: The Q'ylerian Freehold
Version 5: The Most Serene Republic of Crælia
Version 4.2: The Ellic Kingdom/Ellic (Etremian) Empire
Version 4: The Ellic Tribes/Kingdom/Republic
Version 3: The United States of Rezelia;

The only use of nuclear weapons in CCRPG; The only use of nerve gas
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Lundymaphone
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Ryan
Oct 14 2009, 03:15 PM
Without the State, tens die. ^_^

Besides the obvious falsehood of that statement based on human nature what does that have to do with the conversation? Exploring the nature and purpose of standing armies is directly related to the issue (Israeli teens refusing to do army duty) but that statement is open-ended and serves no purpose, nor is it connected to the conversation.
in pace, ut sapiens, aptarit idonea bello
In peace, like a wise man, he appropriately prepares for war
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Alkeni Synair
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I'm going to Ignore wraiths comment, mainly because he clearly....isn't approachable about this....

@Ryan: um...do you have to turn EVERY conversation into state-elimiationism?
Work in progress.
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