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Hittite shield molds at Piramesse
Topic Started: Oct 12 2017, 11:23 PM (172 Views)
George Nicolaides
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Hi all,

Came across these articles and pictures, relating to stone Hittite shield molds found at Piramesse in Egypt. From what I can gather from these articles, it seems there was a Hittite contingent stationed in the city after the peace treaty between Ramses II and the Hittite Empire. These molds were used to produce and repair Hittite shields.

The entries are as follows -
https://www.natgeocreative.com/photography/456489
National Geographic painting showing how the shields were manufactured from the molds
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=4zslDw...%20mold&f=false
Entry from the book 'Pharaoh's Land and Beyond: Ancient Egypt and Its Neighbors'
detailing finding of Hittite shield molds in Qantir (Piramesse) and, interestingly, a worked boars tusk.
https://au.pinterest.com/pin/426575395938306563/
Picture of an Egyptologist standing in front of a shield mold

http://www.literature-middle-ages.com/rams...st-capital.html
Paragraph stating 'Egyptian water pipe in one hand, German archaeologist Edgar Pusch points with his other hand to a mold used in the manufacture of Hittite-style shields found at Pi-Ramses. The mold would have been used to shape bronze strips that would then be fastened to the edges of shields as stretigtheners)'. A picture is also present, but of poor quality

Has anyone else heard of these molds?

What I find interesting is that the shield shape in these molds is very like the Boeotian shield and Persian shield.
I had assumed that the Boeotian was an evolution of the Mycenaean figure eight shield, but the similarity in shape suggests an Anatolian rather than an Aegean origin for the Theban shield.

Also, the similarity with the Persian shield suggests the Persians may have adopted the shape after conquering Asia Minor.

Your thoughts?

Regards

George




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Matthew Amt
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ZOIKS!! No, never heard of such a thing!

Fully agree that the Boeotian shield is related to the Hittite and Persian styles, but I don't think they are descended from the Mycenaean figure-8. Just too many differences and too little real similarity.

I am, however, VERY dubious about these stone things being molds for *bronze* parts. I just don't see the need or advantage for such an involved tool, and it's really the *wrong* sort of tool for shaping smaller pieces of metal that way. Plus even if the stone is very smooth, you'll get unwanted tool marks on the metal. Better and vastly easier to carve a wooden block to form these metal strips one at a time. If you are shaping small pieces of metal, you use a small form.

Heck, experiments have also shown that you can make a one-piece bronze shield using only a narrow wooden form, doing the embossing in segments, radially. Absolutely no need for a complete shield-shaped form.

I *am* reminded of the wooden molds used to make Irish *leather* shields. And Steve Peffley has made shield molds out of concrete. So these stone molds would work great for forming a single piece of leather or hide.

I am also reminded of various Greek stone sculptural pieces being interpreted as molds for shields or even embossed helmets, and we had no trouble realizing that was silly. You don't use stone to emboss or shape metal. You don't need to!

Further, where are all these supposed bronze rim pieces that are supposedly being cranked out of these molds?? Museums should be full of them, right? They should show up in books somewhere, right? Am I just missing something? IF someone comes up with a pile of these rim pieces, AND shows clear traces of them having been pounded into a stone mold, and preferably finds bronze traces in the molds, I'll start believing. Until then, sorry, not buying it.

Fascinating finds, to be sure! Just misinterpreted.

Matthew
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Dan D'Silva
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It is a very strange find. I agree with Matt that it doesn't seem like a sensible tool for the job, especially if you're shaping the metal in small pieces. Do we have any finds of this style of Hittite shield, or clear evidence that they had rims? Of course, their construction could have varied a lot (for comparison, we've got both metal and rawhide dhals from early modern times), so one find without a rim, or with a rim made in a different fashion, doesn't rule out identifying this object as a mold or the reconstruction of how it was used, but for the time being, it still seems little better than pure speculation to me.

As for its relationship to the Persian violin shield, I think that the Persians saw the violin shield as a traditional style. In the Persepolis reliefs, dating to around 27 years after the conquest of Lydia, it's coupled with the Elamite robe. So to me they must have had it for a while longer. I could conjure up a scenario where the Hittite shield is transmitted from Asia Minor along the Southern Caucasus and into Media during the early Iron Age, but that's all highly speculative.

By the way, the Persian violin shield had a rim, and is shown as carried in such a way that it must have had a forearm hold, like a porpax or a Highland targe's arm strap, while the little Hittite art that I've seen showing their version shows it as center-gripped. If the two are related, there was a certain amount of mutation over the centuries. Perhaps the violin shield's flat boss is a relic of a time when its ancestor was center-gripped and someone decided to add a boss to better protect the hand.

There's an alleged bronze shield or shield facing from the Axel Guttmann collection of a similar shape, but I'm not convinced it was actually (part of) a shield just because it looks like one.
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Todd Feinman
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I have seen those. I've thought that the shields must have been made of layers of rawhide pressed into the mold and then trimmed or something. That's the only way I could think such a mold could work.
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Dan Howard
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I mention those molds in my book. If they are shield molds then they are for hide shields, not bronze ones.
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George Nicolaides
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Thanks for the reply guys. If they aren't molds, then what are they? I'll try and dig up the original excavation report, but judging from the photo with the archaeologist, some at least seem to have been vertical on a wall. Could they be wall decorations? We have painted figure of eight shields on Minoan walls, so could something similar be happening here? The inside of the carved rim could either have been painted to mimic a Hittite shield, or an actual shield might have rested on the carved rim, perhaps suspended by leather straps
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Todd Feinman
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Here is a pic:
https://books.google.com/books?id=-08vDwAAQ...o!d&f=false

It appears to be a master form either for cutting rawhide to shape directly!y, or a form to make patterns from to then cut rawhide. It wouldn't work to let the hide layers dry there, too moist.
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