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| Trojan helmets | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 4 2016, 04:59 AM (415 Views) | |
| George Nicolaides | Jan 4 2016, 04:59 AM Post #1 |
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Hello, and a Happy New Year to everyone! I've been currently reading 'Troy and its Remains' by Schliemann (you can get a pdf copy here: https://archive.org/details/troyitsremainsna00schl and have come across the following passages... By the side of the house, as well as in its larger apartments, I have found great quantities of human bones, but as yet only two entire skeletons, which must be those of warriors, for they were found at a depth of 7 meters (23 feet), with copper helmets upon their heads. P279 Unfortunately both helmets were broken; however, I hope to be able to put one of the two together when I return to Athens. P279 The upper portions of both helmets have, however, been well preserved ; and these parts form the ridge, in which the horse-hair plume, so frequently mentioned in the Iliad, was fixed." P280 The large copper ring found beside the helmet had been attached to it, in what manner I do not know. Two days later, when I found the second helmet, I perceived from the manner in which the lower portion was fixed to the helmet that the pieces must be put together as shown in the drawing. Through the lower portion of each helmet runs a copper nail, which has a round head and its other end simply bent round. As to the place into which the Xocfros lirirovpis was inserted and fixed there can be no doubt, for the opening at the top of the ridge can have served no other purpose. By the side of the second helmet also, I found the fragment of a copper ring similar to that found beside the first helmet. P281 Perhaps the articles found a few days previously in a room of the royal palace, close to the place where the Treasure was discovered, belonged to this unfortunate person. These articles were a helmet, and a silver vase 7 inches high and 5.^ inches broad, containing an elegant cup of electrum 4.I inches high and 3^ inches broad. The helmet was broken in being taken out, but I can have it mended, as I have all the pieces of it. p333-334 The two upper portions, composing the crest are uninjured. Beside the helmet, as before, I found a curved copper pin, nearly 6 inches in length, which must have been in some way attached to it, and have served some purpose. (Compare No. 192, p. 281.) p334 My question is this.....has anyone seen these helmets in any museum or know what they actually look like?? There are no illustrations of them in the book. Regards George |
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| Todd Feinman | Jan 4 2016, 10:14 AM Post #2 |
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Apparently Schliemann's helmet claims don't hold water; they were smashed up vessels of some sort. Apparently some "spear heads" later turned out to be daggers, too: https://books.google.com/books?id=FA4NA37zO...%20troy&f=false |
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| Todd Feinman | Jan 4 2016, 11:03 AM Post #3 |
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I think the Carchemish Warrior can give us a good idea what Trojan and even Greek helmets were like: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/sl...raphy/103764929 |
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| Todd Feinman | Jan 4 2016, 04:05 PM Post #4 |
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I am using the Carchemish depiction as a basis for my new Achilles helmet; I believe the little projection in front of this helmet is a Homeric phallera. |
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| Dan Howard | Jan 4 2016, 10:14 PM Post #5 |
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It certainly could be. Any other depictions of a projection like this? |
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| Todd Feinman | Jan 4 2016, 11:16 PM Post #6 |
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I actually think I remember seeing another one! I'll look. Dan, isn't your helmet nearing the top of Jeffrey's list? |
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| Todd Feinman | Jan 4 2016, 11:48 PM Post #7 |
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Of course! There are other warriors in that relief: http://flickrhivemind.net/blackmagic.cgi?i...@N07/4227690621 If you google image "Carchemish Warriors" you'll see other pics of it. I see Achilles' helmet as essentially identical --with the cheekpieces and horns instead of the phallerae. Other helmets at the time were tapered domes, and it fits with the upper Phalos of the helmet that the crest was on. |
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| George Nicolaides | Jan 5 2016, 05:26 AM Post #8 |
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Hi Todd, The Carchemish helmets are possibly a little later in date than the Trojan War (whenever you want to date that) but they are certainly related to the helmet on the Warrior Gate figure at Hattusas. This page shows a model based on that figure, together with the relief itself and a line drawing... http://www.altarmodeling.com/hittitewarriorgod.html The comic Age of Bronze seems to have followed this helmet type for their depictions of Trojans. You can see how on Andrea Salimbeti's site dealing with Iliad shields... http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/shields4.htm A cover and panel from the comic are shown near the bottom of this page. Another possibility for a Trojan helmet is the figure from the pottery shard from Hattusa (you know, the one I had all those 'discussions' with Andrea about). Of course, it would have to have TWO horns!!!!! |
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| Todd Feinman | Jan 5 2016, 03:38 PM Post #9 |
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Hi George, I think Troy VIIa or even Troy VIIb. Was the Troy of the Iliad. Homer's descriptions of armour seem to have elements from 10th century BCE armour. It's like a tall tale of Paul Bunyan, based on historical facts. Of course if the dates can be pushed back: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Cent...?showtopic=2052 Or, the dates pushed forward, or a bit of both.. |
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