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One for Greek fluent Iliad fans
Topic Started: May 20 2014, 09:36 PM (381 Views)
S. Workman
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I was listening to the Ian McEllan reading of the Odyssey, and at one point Menelaus is referred to as "die hard". Is that really an idiom they had back in Homer's day? I can't even remember what section it was in, and I heard it while driving so I don't even know what disc it would have been.
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Dan Howard
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Find me the line or at least the book number and I'll take a look.
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S. Workman
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Dan Howard,May 20 2014
10:00 PM
Find me the line or at least the book number and I'll take a look.

Book 8, line 580-581. It's just an interesting phrase, it makes me wonder if they used that term, or it's an approximation.
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Dan Howard
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It is line 518 in my version. The word is antitheos. It means "equal to the gods" or "god-like".

αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσῆα προτὶ δώματα Δηϊφόβοιο
βήμεναι, ἠΰτ' Ἄρηα σὺν ἀντιθέῳ Μενελάῳ. [8.517-518]

"but Odysseus went to the home of Deiphobos,
like Ares with godlike Menelaus."
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Todd Feinman
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Origin of the adjective "die-hard":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_hard_(phrase)
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S. Workman
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That's very interesting, thanks so much for translating that. I wonder why it was parsed as "die hard" when the same version uses "godlike" frequently, f.e. about Telemachus.
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S. Workman
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Todd Feinman,May 21 2014
02:30 PM
Origin of the adjective "die-hard":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_hard_(phrase)

That's great, so the translator of the version I have used it, maybe, to modernize the text?
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Dan Howard
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It isn't a good translation. "Die hard" refers to someone who refuses to be swayed from their belief or course. "God-like" refers to someone with heroic attributes. Modernising the text is fine but it shouldn't completely change the inherent meaning of the verse.
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S. Workman
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Dan Howard,May 21 2014
09:54 PM
It isn't a good translation. "Die hard" refers to someone who refuses to be swayed from their course. "God-like" refers to someone with heroic attributes.

Well, it's certainly dramatic when spoken by Ian McKellan, however badů.
It makes me wonder how many more errors there are in that audiobook.
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