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Fixed or rotating axle on chariots
Topic Started: Oct 27 2010, 03:53 PM (1,210 Views)
philip
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Who can help me with this. It stays confusing for me.
What form of axle were used in the Sumerian battle car and in the war chariots we know of later nations (Hittite, Mittani,...)?
Which used rotating axles on which there were installed fixed wheels, the axle and the wheels thus turning around as one whole ?
Which used fixed axles (which didn't turn around) with self rotating wheels?
Thanks

Philip
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Dan Howard
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Don't they all have wheels fixed to the axles?
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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If they were like the European ones, the axles would be fixed. At least the clay models of models seem show fixed axles. Fixing the wheels to the axles only makes sense to me if you power the axles, as in cars, and then only with a differential. Wheels fixed to the axles make a charriot rather difficult to steer. Fixing the wheel to the axle is more difficult anyway, unless you make the end of axle and the hole in the wheel square.
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Gregory J. Liebau
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Yeah, if common sense were to prevail back then (which it seems to have most of the time) fixing the wheels to the axles sounds like a no-no, primarily for the reasons Jeroen touches upon above. A Celtic chariot reconstruction I saw done had wheels slipped onto a fixed axle, and pins were inserted to keep the wheels from spinning off of the axle at speed, during turns, etc... But the axle and wheel were definitely separate components.

-Gregory
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Dan Howard
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Ah. So what is the earliest example of independently rotating wheels?
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Gregory J. Liebau
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I'm not a big fan of chariots, but after perusing the Osprey title "Bronze Age War Chariots" it seems a four-wheel cart has been discovered in tomb at Kish dating to the early dynastic era of Sumer (what's that, roughly 2500 BC?), and had wheels that were not attached to any existing axle or cart. Glancing ahead to something I'm more familiar with, I know the Knossos tablets list chariot boxes and wheels - not axles. This is definitely a sign that the axles were incorporated into the chariot box and the wheels were then secured to the axle and rotated independently. Based on the artistic evidence and interpretation I see in this book, which I admit I haven't read front to back, it seems like it's commonly accepted that independent rotation was standard from the get-go. I see no clear mention of the method of wheel attachment beyond the artists interpretations, which show the wheels secured to a circular axle by means of pins, typically.

-Gregory
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Sean Manning
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I always thought that Bronze Age chariots had removable wheels and fixed, non-rotating axles. If you look at the original photos of Tutankhamun's tomb, the wheels have been removed from the chariots and placed at the side. And the axles are an integral part of the body, so they couldn't rotate.

Achaemenid chariots have large pins through the axles outside the wheels which I assumed hold the wheels on. I'm no expert on chariots though!
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Sean Manning
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I have heard it claimed that the early Sumerian battle-carts had rotating axles, but that may be out of date. Littauer and Crouwel, Wheeled Vehicles and Ridden Animals in the Ancient Near East (1979) would probably be a good reference to check.
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Gregory J. Liebau
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"I always thought that Bronze Age chariots had removable wheels and fixed, non-rotating axles. If you look at the original photos of Tutankhamun's tomb, the wheels have been removed from the chariots and placed at the side. And the axles are an integral part of the body, so they couldn't rotate."

This is the point I was arguing based on the Osprey title. Not sure if I was unclear, or if you were just in agreement. Regarding the Sumerian carts, the book stated that wheels were found separately from the body of any cart. The best way to know whether or not they were integral to a rotating axle or were free-wheels would be to know the shape of their shaft hole. If angular, it would suggest a rotating axle, if round, it would suggest a rotating wheel.

Let's find some pictures!

-Gregory
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Edwin Deady
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One problem with a rotating axle is that when turning the two wheels want to move at different speeds but can't so one has a tendency to skid and throws extra strain on the axle set-up. Independent wheels can move as they need to. I wonder about the bearing though. No grease caps on early wheeled vehicles' hubs so did they put up with squeaks until they seized up? Do some sorts of wood eventually wear hard enough and polished enough to provide efficient quiet bearings? At least they knew enough not to make the lynch-pins of wax.

Edwin
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Brock H
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I would think that they probably used animal fat as a grease between the wheels and axle.
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Edwin Deady
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I agree about the possibility of greasing the wheel and axle but how do you without taking wheel off? I suppose smearing grease around both sides of where axle goes through wheel might help but not much would penetrate.

Reports of such carts all over world is that they do squeak something horrible.
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Brock H
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Since the wheels would have been removable, taking the wheels off and smearing fat on the axle was probably done often. It wouldn't have been just a matter of getting rid of the squeaks. Greased wheels would have turned better and that could be critical in battle. I imagine that greasing would also have reduced the likelihood of failure of the axle/wheel combination and extended its useful life.

Farm carts would be a different matter--they're slower than a chariot at battle speed (even if that speed was only about a man's trotting speed so the runners could keep up) nor is it as critical that the wheels turn smoothly. Any sensible army would have included people to maintain the chariots while a farmer has many things to keep him busy, most of which would be more important than greasing his cart. Indeed, the axle and wheels might not ever get greased.
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Edwin Deady
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I am trying to find the reference to wheels catching fire from friction with axle and being dowsed with water which i suppse would also act a lubricant after the wheel and axle had done swelling and being worn down.
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